KVR Audio

egbert101 · Post by **egbert101** » Mon Sep 25, 2023 9:25 am

We all knew this would happen eventually.

Jim Roseberry · Post by **Jim Roseberry** » Mon Sep 25, 2023 6:56 pm

Manufacturing in the US is getting crazy complicated/expensive.
For that to change, it's going to take a significant group of united people... who have both high political and business acumen.
I have little faith that will happen.

vertibration · Post by **vertibration** » Mon Sep 25, 2023 8:36 pm

Jim Roseberry wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 6:56 pm Manufacturing in the US is getting crazy complicated/expensive.
For that to change, it's going to take a significant group of united people... who have both high political and business acumen.
I have little faith that will happen.

Bruh CEO's out here making 40 MIL a year lmao. cmon

kidslow · Post by **kidslow** » Mon Sep 25, 2023 8:52 pm

Your 40 MIL CEOs need to talk to their compensation committees and make things equitable. They're falling behind. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-highest-paid-ceos/

vertibration · Post by **vertibration** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 12:03 am

kidslow wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 8:52 pm Your 40 MIL CEOs need to talk to their compensation committees and make things equitable. They're falling behind. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-highest-paid-ceos/

My CEO's? As if I owned my own CEO's, you think I would be posting on KVR? LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!

kidslow · Post by **kidslow** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 12:35 am

Not literally your CEOs

but figuratively, as in the CEOs to whom you referred.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 4:52 am

From what I heard Moog was employee owned, so hopefully a good bunch got good pay to retire or something.

InMusic I was in contact with, or tried is more like it, having questions about Akai MPC X
- never got a reply
- but got an email after a while with survey asking if I was satisfied with the reply

- and I got their newsletter, so nothing wrong with email

When companies grow over a certain size something happends and one hand does not know what the other is doing.

Similar things when Gibson went into Pro Audio, as they called it, and bought Cakewalk and lot of other companies.
- then were in serious finacial problems and got rid of Cakewalk among others

AdvancedFollower · Post by **AdvancedFollower** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 7:15 am

lfm wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 4:52 am From what I heard Moog was employee owned, so hopefully a good bunch got good pay to retire or something.

Unlikely. Moog was never a cooperative, they just had an Employee Stock Ownership Plan.
Here's some more information on what it was in practice, including the taxation implications: https://ogorek.com/2021/11/10/the-pros- ... hase-plan/

Employees were able to buy shares at a 15% discount, deducted from their payroll. Given how Moog performed after they launched their ESOP, employees might have been better off purchasing stock in other, better performing companies, buying into index or equity funds etc.

The whole "employee owned" thing was just marketing speak to make Moog seem homely and "All-American" (which is ironic since they almost made it sound like a socialist utopia where workers own the means of production...). This has been made even more evident after recent events.

Jim Roseberry · Post by **Jim Roseberry** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 2:58 pm

vertibration wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 8:36 pm
Jim Roseberry wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 6:56 pm Manufacturing in the US is getting crazy complicated/expensive.
For that to change, it's going to take a significant group of united people... who have both high political and business acumen.
I have little faith that will happen.
Bruh CEO's out here making 40 MIL a year lmao. cmon

We're not talking massive Tech or Pharma companies... we're talking Moog Music.
Model-D and MoogOne are $5k and $10k boutique products with an extremely niche' market.
They're not selling thousands of units.
Meaning, there's no heavy discounts on manufacture or sales.

CEOs have the right to negotiate the best contract they can get.
Athletes have the right to negotiate the best contract they can get.
UAW has the right to negotiate the best contract they can get.
Suppliers have the right to negotiate the best deal they can get.
Fill-in-the-blank has the right to negotiate the best deal they can get.
We all want clean water.
We all want clean air.
The US is in debt up to its eyeballs (meaning the dollar is losing value causing inflation).

It's a complex issue... that goes far beyond the overpaid 1%.
Say the CEO of US Auto company X makes 40 million/year.
Let's say that company sells 200k automobiles per year.
That CEO's salary adds $200 (average) to each automobile's cost.
Cost of a budget new car is ~$20k. The CEO's part is (ironically) 1%.

gnu23 · Post by **gnu23** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 3:30 pm

Jim Roseberry wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 6:56 pm Manufacturing in the US is getting crazy complicated/expensive.
For that to change, it's going to take a significant group of united people... who have both high political and business acumen.
I have little faith that will happen.

Mass production has always been complicated. Mechanical Engineers excel at creating viable industrial-scale processes.

Expensive? I hope that isn't an oblique shot at labor. Workers are unionizing and striking for damned good reasons. Among them is a demand for fair wages and benefits.

ObRef: Here's how General Motors' CEO Mary Barra justifies her $29 million salary

Jim Roseberry · Post by **Jim Roseberry** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 4:18 pm

gnu23 wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 3:30 pm
Jim Roseberry wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 6:56 pm Manufacturing in the US is getting crazy complicated/expensive.
For that to change, it's going to take a significant group of united people... who have both high political and business acumen.
I have little faith that will happen.
Mass production has always been complicated. Mechanical Engineers excel at creating viable industrial-scale processes.

Expensive? I hope that isn't an oblique shot at labor. Workers are unionizing and striking for damned good reasons. Among them is a demand for fair wages and benefits.

ObRef: Here's how General Motors' CEO Mary Barra justifies her $29 million salary

Industrial-scale processes are great... if you can sell in mass quantity.
MoogOne and Model-D will never sell in that type of quantity.
Even if you cut the price of both in half, they'd still be boutique.

As I said above, UAW absolutely has the right to negotiate the best deal they can.
That goes for everybody (CEO, Athlete, Dr, Lawyer, Contractor, Labor, etc).
CT Stroud signed a deal for what... 36-Million (all guaranteed). More power to him!
All the various factors tally into a product's final cost.
Ultimately, the consumer chooses to either bear the cost (or not).
In the case of life-saving medicines, there's not much choice.
Most folks can (do) live without a MoogOne.

US manufacturing returning in a big way... is one massively complex puzzle (to solve).
It would be great to see it return. It could fuel many small support/supply related businesses.
How do you do that... without compromise? Quantum Physics might be less complex.

Inmusic dusted Moog fired staff