Now this is a game changer - Bitwig, Presonus team up DAWProject

[magog]

I really don't understand the hate for open standards here. Does anybody here use business software? Would you like to return to the days where you could only open an Excel spreadsheet in Excel? Now we have Google Sheets, LibreOffice Calc, Numbers, etc. and they all can read the same files. Not perfectly, and not all the time, but enough of the time that you don't have to have Excel installed in order to collaborate with people.

Music software is starting to take a few more baby steps into a world of improved interoperability between applications. I think it's great.

[machinesworking]

I really don't understand the hate for open standards here. Does anybody here use business software? Would you like to return to the days where you could only open an Excel spreadsheet in Excel? Now we have Google Sheets, LibreOffice Calc, Numbers, etc. and they all can read the same files. Not perfectly, and not all the time, but enough of the time that you don't have to have Excel installed in order to collaborate with people.

Music software is starting to take a few more baby steps into a world of improved interoperability between applications. I think it's great.

It's just a loud few, most people completely get it.

There's a park here, an old spot of pavement that used to be a tennis court, and they are putting up a Pickleball court, there are people literally protesting it, it made national news even.. Karens gonna Karen.

[magog]

There's a park here, an old spot of pavement that used to be a tennis court, and they are putting up a Pickleball court, there are people literally protesting it, it made national news even.. Karens gonna Karen.

[Jac459]

We're talking about a much bigger picture than "how that one person in a thread on KVR feels."

Well that's a self serving arrogant response! no surprises there.

....edited....


I would say without a doubt to me personally that CLAP will win out if it manages to stick around, simply because an open standard has been needed for two plus decades. I could be wrong, but it's not worth being a dickhead to people on forums about it.

Fully agree with you.
Also on what you said after: Karens gonna Karen....

[VOODOO U]

it's not worth being a dickhead to people on forums.

It is well worth every penny being a dickhead to people on forums.
I love how they squirm uncontrollably as if caught in a tornado.

[EnGee]

it's not worth being a dickhead to people on forums.

It is well worth every penny being a dickhead to people on forums.
I love how they squirm uncontrollably as if caught in a tornado.

Then you are mentally ill. Go to see a psychologist and have some medicine to cool down.

[VOODOO U]

it's not worth being a dickhead to people on forums.

It is well worth every penny being a dickhead to people on forums.
I love how they squirm uncontrollably as if caught in a tornado.

Then you are mentally ill. Go to see a psychologist and have some medicine to cool down.

That was a dickhead thing to say to me. See how fun it is?!!

[machinesworking]

it's not worth being a dickhead to people on forums.

It is well worth every penny being a dickhead to people on forums.
I love how they squirm uncontrollably as if caught in a tornado.

Hi ten millionth sock puppet for same old banned user, how are you doing?

[ghettosynth]

Not sure if it is a "game changer", but, surely nice for the (few) people who want to share projects between different DAWs.

There is potentially another use, which is starting a project in one DAW and switching to another to use its features. For example, if this catches on then people could create something in Live and switch to, say, Cubase for mixing. Make a bunch of sounds in Logic using Alchemy. Use FL Studio's midi tool to compose a track. Start in Studio One, then switch to Bitwig to use their spectral tools, then move back again.

That was my first thought. Generate stuff in Live, then move it to Reaper to mix.

[machinesworking]

Not sure if it is a "game changer", but, surely nice for the (few) people who want to share projects between different DAWs.

There is potentially another use, which is starting a project in one DAW and switching to another to use its features. For example, if this catches on then people could create something in Live and switch to, say, Cubase for mixing. Make a bunch of sounds in Logic using Alchemy. Use FL Studio's midi tool to compose a track. Start in Studio One, then switch to Bitwig to use their spectral tools, then move back again.

That was my first thought. Generate stuff in Live, then move it to Reaper to mix.

Yep, years ago around Live 4 I used to port all the tracks to Logic to mix and master. Having something like DAWproject would have made that so much easier. I'm really hoping Live comes on board with DAWproject, I have a few people I work with that use it, and I would like to use other DAWs sometimes.

[EnGee]

it's not worth being a dickhead to people on forums.

It is well worth every penny being a dickhead to people on forums.
I love how they squirm uncontrollably as if caught in a tornado.

Then you are mentally ill. Go to see a psychologist and have some medicine to cool down.

That was a dickhead thing to say to me. See how fun it is?!!

No it isn't! I don't feel fun when seeing others upset or causing them to feel negative. It is better to be positive and looking for solutions.

That leads to Bitwig effort to make things easier to us or some of us. Others that don't use Bitwig or/and S1 don't care and that's understandable for now, but I hope other DAWs would do the same and we can transfer our projects to any DAW can support that. We won't care about what DAW or what format we save our projects. That is very nice

[Trensharo]

I really don't understand the hate for open standards here. Does anybody here use business software? Would you like to return to the days where you could only open an Excel spreadsheet in Excel? Now we have Google Sheets, LibreOffice Calc, Numbers, etc. and they all can read the same files. Not perfectly, and not all the time, but enough of the time that you don't have to have Excel installed in order to collaborate with people.

Music software is starting to take a few more baby steps into a world of improved interoperability between applications. I think it's great.

The same reason people don't understand the hate for closed standards that work.

Excel Spreadsheets in businesses that depend on them, like Finance, etc. are still proprietary to Excel by virtue of the feature disparity between different software packages. In some segments, Excel is virtually irreplaceable - regardless of what format you are saving the files to; and even if you used an open format, the file would still be practically proprietary.

It's why Quattro Pro is still dead and apart from some classrooms and home users almost no one is basing businesses like that on Google Sheets or LibreOffice Calc.

Excel supports ODF, as well. The issue with that kind of software has little to nothing to do with the binary formats they used (that other software (e.g. Quattro Pro) supported) and far more with the disparity in features that left spreadsheets unusable in the other software even if the other software application could open them.

A finance spreadsheet is not usable if half of the macros/functions are incompatible and all the cells have been turned into static values, etc.

Same thing happened with other software applications, like Word and WordPerfect. They all support ODF, but it doesn't matter what format you use if you use features in Word or WordPerfect that Apple Pages, LibreOffice Calc or Google Docs doesn't support.

The issue with "standards after the fact" is that they often trail the capabilities of the applications people want to see them force-applied to. People don't understand that the entire reason why different applications had their own file formats was precisely to accommodate their individual feature sets.

The only reliable open document format is Office Open XML, because it's the one native to Office - the suite with the deepest feature set. Going from Excel to ODF makes less sense than Calc to OOXML, for that reason alone.

And there are still ton of areas of incompatibility between the two applications when you move into business applications (Macros and Formula Support, etc.).

[Jac459]

I really don't understand the hate for open standards here. Does anybody here use business software? Would you like to return to the days where you could only open an Excel spreadsheet in Excel? Now we have Google Sheets, LibreOffice Calc, Numbers, etc. and they all can read the same files. Not perfectly, and not all the time, but enough of the time that you don't have to have Excel installed in order to collaborate with people.

Music software is starting to take a few more baby steps into a world of improved interoperability between applications. I think it's great.

The same reason people don't understand the hate for closed standards that work.

Excel Spreadsheets in businesses that depend on them, like Finance, etc. are still proprietary to Excel by virtue of the feature disparity between different software packages. In some segments, Excel is virtually irreplaceable - regardless of what format you are saving the files to; and even if you used an open format, the file would still be practically proprietary.

It's why Quattro Pro is still dead and apart from some classrooms and home users almost no one is basing businesses like that on Google Sheets or LibreOffice Calc.

Excel supports ODF, as well. The issue with that kind of software has little to nothing to do with the binary formats they used (that other software (e.g. Quattro Pro) supported) and far more with the disparity in features that left spreadsheets unusable in the other software even if the other software application could open them.

A finance spreadsheet is not usable if half of the macros/functions are incompatible and all the cells have been turned into static values, etc.

Same thing happened with other software applications, like Word and WordPerfect. They all support ODF, but it doesn't matter what format you use if you use features in Word or WordPerfect that Apple Pages, LibreOffice Calc or Google Docs doesn't support.

The issue with "standards after the fact" is that they often trail the capabilities of the applications people want to see them force-applied to. People don't understand that the entire reason why different applications had their own file formats was precisely to accommodate their individual feature sets.

The only reliable open document format is Office Open XML, because it's the one native to Office - the suite with the deepest feature set. Going from Excel to ODF makes less sense than Calc to OOXML, for that reason alone.

And there are still ton of areas of incompatibility between the two applications when you move into business applications (Macros and Formula Support, etc.).

To be fair excel is not a closed standard that works, in investment banks with traders and quants being hardcore users, every version upgrade is a nightmare.

With interoperability in mind it may have worked better....

[jens]

And yet I - and lots of my colleagues - often interchange Excel-sheets between OO/LO, Google Docs and Excel and I never noticed much (if anything) in the way of problems - so it totally depends on what you're doing with it, which obviously is the perspective some here lack.
Trensharo thinks the way he works is the only way there is.

But it's a quite faulty analogy anyway for obvious reasons:

1) it's an xml-file

2) it's a open standard two DAW-makers developed together

3) say DAW A has extensive (destructive) sample-editing capabilities, DAW B has none.
I can edit the hell out of the sample in DAW A and later on open the project
without a problem in DAW B, the same applies to a score-editor, etc. because - unlike
Excel - DAWs core data consists of referenced files

4) for the bulk of their processsing, DAWs reference plugins that are in a standardized format.

5) the music-production scene - and even more so the software side of it - is much much much smaller than the office-tools one and there is vastly more interconnectedness, social-networking and willingness to co-operate.
Not by everyone, obviously, but overall there's no denying it.



Geez... why did I even have to write this - that hould be so - so - so obvious, no?

[chk071]

And yet I - and lots of my colleagues - often interchange Excel-sheets between OO/LO, Google Docs and Excel and I never noticed much (if anything) in the way of problems - so it totally depends on what you're doing with it, which obviously is the perspective some here lack.

First and foremost, it depends on the formatting. If you use some functions which are not presented, or implemented in another way in the program you open the file with, it's obvious that the program can't display the file exactly like in the program the file was created in.

I don't know how it is in Excel, but, it's a big issue in Word files. Unsurprisingly, there's not a single other word processor which can open and display the documents created in Word like in the original document, when there's a bit of advanced formatting used.

But, as you say, I don't know how relevant that is here, because, it depends whether or not the DAWs support all the functionality of the standard.