Has Studio One Pro v6.5 Eclipsed Cubase Pro 12?

[Muziksculp]

S1Pro 6.5.1 was released today.

Mostly bug fixes, and a few improvements.

Version 6.5.1 Release Notes (November 01, 2023):

Improvements:

o Speaker Mapping in plug-in header now allows swapping channels via drag & drop
o Vertical snapping now restored when dragging Events to other Tracks
o [Linux] Warning when audio device is in use by another application

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The following issues have been fixed:

o [Bit Crusher] Downsampling sounds different after reactivation
o [DAW Mode] StudioLive S-Series mixer freezing when loading song with >100 channels
o [DAWproject] Certain audio parts not time-stretched
o [Linux] Freeze when creating song from smart template with audio files
o [Linux] Graphical glitches with time cursor and animations
o [Linux] JACK and ALSA devices block each other
o [Linux] File system permission issues with shared data folders
o [macOS] Crash on right-clicking channel when another channel with pinned Overview is selected
o [macOS] No multichannel option for AU plug-ins displayed when available
o [macOS] Potential crash when dropping many chords on instrument track
o [macOS] Potential crash when loading certain picture files
o [macOS] Video thumbnail creation can get stuck when source file contains invalid data
o [Console] Clipping indicator does not light up
o [Note Editor] "Legato" shouldn't extend Note Events to Part end in all cases
o [Pattern Editor] Text input of individual step count broken
o [ProEQ³] Toggling quality mode changes band frequency
o [Show Page] Lyrics for next song do not automatically show up in performance view
o [Surround Delay] Potential error when stepping through presets
o [Surround Panner] Changing channel focus disengages ControlLink device focus
o [Windows] "Enter" key does not insert line break in Lyrics Editor
o [Windows] GUI in certain 3rd-party plug-ins not entirely responsive
o [Windows] Macro Page commands don't use Macro Page of currently focused area
o [Video] Certain exports fail when set to Dolby AC3
o Presence XT “Artist Instruments” presets not showing up
o Audio file channel mapping not recalled
o Automation node pop-up doesn't automatically focus on data field
o Can't drag audio event with crossfade to Chord Track
o Canceling "Transform to Audio Track" of Multi Instrument does not delete all bounces
o Certain 3rd-party panner not listed as surround panner
o Crash when initializing certain Dante PCIe-R boards
o Diminished 7 chords are not recognized
o Export Spatial Audio dialog settings not stored when all checkboxes unchecked
o Lyrics display does not update when editing Lyrics events
o "Manage Plug-ins" does nothing when browser shows search results
o Merging audio events does not retain clip boundaries
o MPE Note Off is generated immediately after Note On
o Multichannel plug-in routing not correct with certain speaker setups
o Note resizing stretches part automation
o Panner open state is not recalled after loading a song
o Plug-in extension Solo not working for groups
o Potential crash when quitting the application while searching the file system
o Potential crash when switching from Atmos to Surround in Song Setup dialog
o Quantizing 50% does not move notes individually
o Renderer channel isn't expanding on double click
o Selection doesn't follow entirely when selecting empty Instrument Tracks
o Selection skips Tracks after closing a folder
o "SkyDust3D" Track Preset reloads wrong output configuration
o Surround Delay presets are not displayed after installation, manual re-indexing is needed
o Undoing "Move to Cursor" irreversibly corrupts Part Automation
o Unexpected results when multiple crossfades are edited simultaneously

[jamcat]

"Lock Pan to Channel" on Sends is still not being recalled after saving. It was working before v6.5 broke it.

[dickiefunk]

I've been using Cubase for over 30 years and am currently using v12. I am so used to Cubase's workflow and features but I find it is getting quite sluggish and also seems to use a lot of cpu compared to what I hear about other DAW's. I like the look of some of the new Cubase 13 features but some users are already reporting v13 uses even more cpu!? As a result, I considering changing to Studio One 6.5.
I've just downloaded the demo and already found it feels way snappier. Studio One loads in a fraction of the time Cubase 12 takes. I'm testing out the cpu at the moment with lots of tracks of vsti's and sample libraries and so far its really low. I'm going to try it on Cubase next.

[dickiefunk]

Ok, I've just been trying out a project in Studio One that I duplicated in Cubase 12. I used 10 vsti/sample library tracks and a few heavy vst fx. I first tried the project at a buffer of 128 and they both performed pretty much the same using around 22% of the cpu. However, when I lowered the buffer to 32 Cubase was constantly spiking up to 70% and sometimes maxing out at 100% but Studio One kept stable at between 24-28%!
If Cubase 13 uses more cpu then I could potentially see myself swapping to Studio One!

[chk071]

I don't know what's up with Cubase 12. The CPU load with the DSP536 Virus TI emulation is also much higher than in Studio One. Haven't tried it in Cubase 13 yet though.

[dickiefunk]

I’m really hoping the cpu demand has noticeably improved in Cubase 13 because I am so used to it and I like the look of a lot of the new features in Cubase 13.

[chk071]

At first glance, it's roughly the same as Cubase 12.

I know that some people complained about CPU usage with Cubase 12 on Steinberg's forums as well.

[inkwarp]

Studio One is like Cubase but without the bloat. It's infinitely preferable to Cubase. It's also very stable.

[chk071]

Studio One is like Cubase but without the bloat. It's infinitely preferable to Cubase. It's also very stable.

[concealed identity]

My experience was that Studio One 5 felt like it should be smoother and less CPU-hungry than Cubase at first, but Cubase 12 actually used less CPU and ran more smoothly as more time was spent in the projects.

To be fair though, I wasn't comparing the same exact projects, so it's not a scientific comparison - but I did have the same experience in multiple projects.

Also, Cubase had less bugs, but when it crashes it feels like it takes down my entire block's electricity grid along with it. Studio One didn't outright crash as much, but there were a lot more instances of things randomly not working right or acting strange (this can be really frustrating if you don't realize it's bugging at first and you assume you did something).

[jamcat]

I’m really hoping the cpu demand has noticeably improved in Cubase 13 because I am so used to it and I like the look of a lot of the new features in Cubase 13.

When I switched from Cubase to Studio One, the hardest part was letting go because I had quite a lot of emotional investment in Cubase. My whole philosophy and workflow was built around Cubase.

But once I finally made the leap, a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders. I found my philosophy and workflow worked even better and became even more refined with Studio One.

In a lot of ways, Studio One is more Cubase than Cubase. It was developed by the guys that developed Nuendo/Cubase SX/VST3.

Cubase lost its way when Matthias and Wolfgang left Steinberg to found KristalLabs/PreSonus Software. That was a big part of why I left Cubase. Studio One picks up where Cubase SX left off.

[lfm]

I first tried the project at a buffer of 128 and they both performed pretty much the same using around 22% of the cpu. However, when I lowered the buffer to 32 Cubase was constantly spiking up to 70% and sometimes maxing out at 100% but Studio One kept stable at between 24-28%!

Just note that StudioOne always use an extra asio buffer just for processing
- it even says so in setting
- when comparing cpu, I mean

You have to compare doing the same RTL to be fair.

But I ditched Cubase 9.5 over to StudioOne 4.x when new videoe engine in Cubase were ready in 2018.
- that was really a cpu hog in Cubase, a breeze in StudioOne
- and also that track templates in Cubase was not to trust, being a massive time saver when it works

Looking at some Steinberg demos on new mixer I am not sure these popup dialogs as you hover mouse is a good thing.
- just like some web pages you don't know where to place cursor not to have something popup
- as he mention in demo good for laptop with small screens though

To complement Sonar I am much closer to StudioOne upgrade if there is a nice black friday deal.
- they both are like not even noticing running video too as you work

[havran]

Then there's me with oak branches, candles, salt and ashes. Maybe I have lost my way.

[KoisanX]

Great question. Keep in mind that when I’m mixing down, I’m using the original unmolested hi-res 96kHz files. As I said, in Cubase I had to make a backup of them before downsampling, so I could swap them back in before exporting the mixdown. Studio One makes it super easy by doing real-time non-destructive resampling on the fly during playback.

The reason for doing this is simply to free up processing cycles during real-time mixing so I don’t have to worry about choking my CPU. Of course I want 96kHz source files and rendering, but it’s not crucial for mixing, where processing headroom is the priority.

I'm still not following your logic; maybe I misunderstand what you are saying.
Once the source data has been changed from 96kHz to 48Khz for processing, as in mixing via FX, volume, pans etc. that's it. No more frequency information to be "recovered." by up-sampling afterwards - the so-called real-time processing I assume is mathematical, it would not retain the original source information in a cache somewhere, only to be re-associated at the exact time-frequency place afterwards.

[jamcat]

I'm still not following your logic; maybe I misunderstand what you are saying.
Once the source data has been changed from 96kHz to 48Khz for processing, as in mixing via FX, volume, pans etc. that's it. No more frequency information to be "recovered." by up-sampling afterwards - the so-called real-time processing I assume is mathematical, it would not retain the original source information in a cache somewhere, only to be re-associated at the exact time-frequency place afterwards.

Right, you're not understanding what I'm saying. Perhaps you're more familiar with the way Cubase works than you are with how Studio One works.

Unlike Cubase, Studio One does NOT permanently change the 96kHz audio file to 48kHz when you change the song's samplerate. Studio One does its "conversion" with real-time processing on-the-fly during playback. It's not changing the audio file. Just like a reverb plugin only puts reverb on the audio while it's playing. The audio track doesn't get altered with reverb permanently encoded in the audio file. Same thing here with Studio One's samplerate conversion.

Cubase, on the other hand, does an offline destructive file overwrite when you change the samplerate of your Cubase project. So in the case of Cubase, your assumptions would be 100% correct. You can't get it back (unless you made a backup first.)

But back to Studio One. The samplerate conversion is only happening internally in the audio engine as you play the song. All your plugins will be operating at 48kHz instead of 96kHz during playback. But nothing that happens during playback is permanent. It's all being calculated on-the-fly as it plays, and is only created in that moment, for just that moment. So you can mix the 96kHz song at 48kHz and use literally half as much CPU to do it. You're not permanently affecting your audio quality because all you're doing is tweaking knobs to change plugin settings while it plays. You're not writing audio.

When you're ready to mixdown, this is when you write audio. So now change the samplerate back to 96kHz, and Studio One goes back to using your unaltered 96kHz audio files at their true samplerate, because they were never actually changed. Since exporting a mixdown is an offline process, it doesn't matter that rendering at 96kHz is slower than real-time. It will take however long it takes to render the audio, even though your computer lacks enough CPU power to play it in real-time at 96kHz.

When you change the samplerate in Cubase or another DAW that destructively downsamples your source audio, it takes a few minutes to complete, as the files are processed offline and overwritten. But Studio One only takes a few seconds to change the samplerate, as it resets your audio device and reconfigures the audio engine to run at the new samplerate.

I really hope you finally understand what I am saying, because I have run out of ways to say that Studio One does not change your source data when you change the playback samplerate of a song.