Albino 3 returns.....

[zerocrossing]

Sure a synth is more than a filter. The world is more than black and white too.

I definitely think it's the sound defining thing in subtractive or wavetable synths though. Teksonik actually proved that more than once, by posting example comparisons of raw waveforms, which are nearly indistinguishable on most synths.

The key words there? "Raw waveforms". Yes by definition they all should be nearly indistinguishable. But we aren't limited to raw waveforms in 2023. In 1973 maybe but not now.

But even with a raw saw wave we can apply Unison and Spread and end up with an really nice sound without filtering anything out. Same with Wavetables. We can sweep them or otherwise modulate them to get great sounds that don't need to be filtered. Even more so if the Wavetable engine allows Osc effects and so on and on and on....

Raw waveforms should be identical, but I’m often surprised at how different they are in practice, at least in analog synths. Plus, a lot of older synths have filters that don’t close all the way by default, which causes people to mistake old synths for having some intrinsic “warmth” that isn’t actually due to their oscillators. My Nina’s got dark sawtooths, even with the filter opened.

[whyterabbyt]

Raw waveforms should be identical

why? the analog circuits never were.

[syntonica]

Raw waveforms should be identical, but I’m often surprised at how different they are in practice, at least in analog synths. Plus, a lot of older synths have filters that don’t close all the way by default, which causes people to mistake old synths for having some intrinsic “warmth” that isn’t actually due to their oscillators. My Nina’s got dark sawtooths, even with the filter opened.

Actually, you are terribly, horribly wrong here and you need to go stand in the corner and think about what you're saying.

You would be hard-pressed to find two analog synths with identical waves at all. Waveforms were never perfect, affected by circuit topologies, slew rates, heat, and plain component tolerances. Sawtooths, triangles and squares were never perfect and, honestly, perfect waveforms have no character at all. They are just nasty, spitty things. As for sounding identical, that is somewhat true, but under the oscilloscope, you can see the actual truth if you cannot hear it.

I'm talking about the vintage stuff here. The modern analogs I find b very clean with their SMT circuitry with far better tolerances than ever before. Unfortunately, I think they can lack character and sound sterile, like the Korg Minilog, Behringer Deep Mind, etc.

[MrJubbly]

Has there been any confirmation of the release date, or an ETA?

[dune_rave]

in 1-2 weeks IIRC

[DrGonzo]

As for sounding identical, that is somewhat true, but under the oscilloscope, you can see the actual truth if you cannot hear it.

I'm talking about the vintage stuff here. The modern analogs I find b very clean with their SMT circuitry with far better tolerances than ever before. Unfortunately, I think they can lack character and sound sterile, like the Korg Minilog, Behringer Deep Mind, etc.

This is a subject I absolutely adore.

Maybe I too have to stand in a corner with the funny hat of shame, but looking at waveforms with oscilloscopes only taught me one thing: it doesn't tell you anything about the quality of the sound. I've been saw waves looking like they behave like analog ones, and yet they sound what you describe as lack of character.

[syntonica]

As for sounding identical, that is somewhat true, but under the oscilloscope, you can see the actual truth if you cannot hear it.

I'm talking about the vintage stuff here. The modern analogs I find b very clean with their SMT circuitry with far better tolerances than ever before. Unfortunately, I think they can lack character and sound sterile, like the Korg Minilog, Behringer Deep Mind, etc.

This is a subject I absolutely adore.

Maybe I too have to stand in a corner with the funny hat of shame, but looking at waveforms with oscilloscopes only taught me one thing: it doesn't tell you anything about the quality of the sound. I've been saw waves looking like they behave like analog ones, and yet they sound what you describe as lack of character.

I've seen some square waves that look more like shark fins (like the Moogy one), but they sound square as hell. You generally can't tell how good a waves sounds until you hear it, even with viewing in an oscilloscope or in an FFT.

It's a fascinating subject and I've only plonked at it a couple of years, but designing my own VIs and VEs has taught me more about sound in that little time vs over a lifetime of playing, writing and listening to music.

[vulpes777]

in 1-2 weeks IIRC

November 17, if I heard right. Rob's doing a livestream right now.

--
Marco

[zerocrossing]

Raw waveforms should be identical, but I’m often surprised at how different they are in practice, at least in analog synths. Plus, a lot of older synths have filters that don’t close all the way by default, which causes people to mistake old synths for having some intrinsic “warmth” that isn’t actually due to their oscillators. My Nina’s got dark sawtooths, even with the filter opened.

Actually, you are terribly, horribly wrong here and you need to go stand in the corner and think about what you're saying.

You would be hard-pressed to find two analog synths with identical waves at all. Waveforms were never perfect, affected by circuit topologies, slew rates, heat, and plain component tolerances. Sawtooths, triangles and squares were never perfect and, honestly, perfect waveforms have no character at all. They are just nasty, spitty things. As for sounding identical, that is somewhat true, but under the oscilloscope, you can see the actual truth if you cannot hear it.

I'm talking about the vintage stuff here. The modern analogs I find b very clean with their SMT circuitry with far better tolerances than ever before. Unfortunately, I think they can lack character and sound sterile, like the Korg Minilog, Behringer Deep Mind, etc.

Perhaps you should go stand in a corner for not being able to read well, because my post literally is about analog synths having different waveforms. While you're at it, put on a dunce cap.

[osiris]

I just used the old version in a song for a pad sound. It's great but I can't touch the GUI without FL freaking out. Can't wait for the new one.

[syntonica]

You said:

Raw waveforms should be identical, but I’m often surprised at how different they are in practice...

Raw waveforms should not be and are not identical for the reasons I stated, and you shouldn't be surprised, but ecstatic about how different they are from each other.

I wasn't trying to pick a fight and I'm sorry my tongue wasn't planted in my cheek as far as it should have been.

[zerocrossing]

You said:

Raw waveforms should be identical, but I’m often surprised at how different they are in practice...

Raw waveforms should not be and are not identical for the reasons I stated, and you shouldn't be surprised, but ecstatic about how different they are from each other.

I wasn't trying to pick a fight and I'm sorry my tongue wasn't planted in my cheek as far as it should have been.

Well, I meant by some ideal of what a waveform is.

[dune_rave]

hmm...if they only touch the gui, a game could be added ... but that is not RP style of development

[Xenox.AFL]

Would be great if LinPlug came back out of retirement.

Nope, Peter was and is completely out of business...
It was not easy at all to rehire him for this "small" project... I had a lot of calls with him!

And because some people asked for it, i did a lot of stuff with Peter and his team together, Spectral, CronoX and a lot of more plugins, but it's NOT planned to comeback or to re-release any of the old plugins...!

Frank

[ramseysounds]

What was the successor to Albino from Rob Papen? If I have already the synths in explorer 8, would I get anything new? I’ll definitely be upgrading from 8 to 9 so will get it by default, but will it give me anything different?