UAD still worth it?

[Uncle E]

Not so sure. Arturia’s Minimoog isn’t as good as UAD. Their 224 is good, but it takes considerably more CPU.

IK’s Pultec is terrible compared to UAD. The low end response is way off and distorts, making it unusable. The IK Fairchild seems OK at 1 or 6 Time Constants, but totally falls apart at the inner settings. Tape Machines are good, but they take 3x the CPU that UAD Studer A800 uses, and they are certainly not 3x better. IK’s LA-2A is good, but it’s incomplete without the R37 pre-emphasis. So you only get about 10% of the functionality of the LA-2A. It’s only as good as the LA-2A Universal Audio gives away for free.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that all Arturia and IK plugins are on UA's level. My fault for not specifying. I'm just saying there are Arturia and IK plugins on that level, whereas none of the equivalent NI plugins are.

Also not implying that UA plugins are bad. I use them daily. Studer is really the only one that doesn't hold up but that was never their good tape, anyway.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I'm just going to offer my own opinions on some of these for the sake of showing any potential newbies that not everyone agrees with the opinions expressed above.

Tape Machines are good, but they take 3x the CPU that UAD Studer A800 uses, and they are certainly not 3x better.

We disagree there. I'd never put the UAD Studer on a project here. I happily use the IK Tapes whenever I want tape. So I'd say they're at least 3x better.

IK’s LA-2A is good, but it’s incomplete without the R37 pre-emphasis. So you only get about 10% of the functionality of the LA-2A. It’s only as good as the LA-2A Universal Audio gives away for free.

From what I recall, the IK version also doesn't do the fuzzbox thing when you crank the sh*t out of the gain. Note: you'll want to pad the output using a third party plugin like TrackControl if you do that.

Neither IK nor Arturia’s Space Echo is as good as UAD,

The UAD one sucks too. Audio Thing Outer Space for the win here. I don't use the Arturia, but I'd rate it over the UA m'self.

but their 1176LN models are comparable. But everyone does a decent 1176LN, including Pulsar. But no one gives you 3 distinct models, except for UAD. UAD 1176AE has no equal.

Disagree on the IK one being comparable. UA wins handily there (that AE sounds a lot like my Stam 1176 ADG hardware clone). But there are other 'just as good' ones from other plugin makers.

Relab’s 480L is top notch. I’ve never compared it to the official Lexicon 480 from UA, but I can’t imagine the UAD is better. But that’s one plugin. Relab has been around for over a decade and they have almost no products. They’ve release as many plugins over the last couple weeks as they had over the previous 10 years.

They're super damn close (UA and Relab). I think the UA is just +4db louder by default which makes everyone think it sounds better at first.

And that really gets to the heart of it. There may be a few smatterings of plugins here and there that are good as UAD. But no one comes close to the sheer volume of great plugins. Universal Audio still has dozens and dozens plugins they haven’t ported yet to native. We’re still just looking at the top of the iceberg.

And UAD models are always 100% complete and true to the original hardware, which is rarely the case from any other developer.

Most UA plugins are excellent - I'd agree. They have a better batting average than the big name competition. They also have a huge catalog. The Signature collection at $299 is a steal and everyone who makes music should own it at that price IMO. But their older stuff (Studer, the Roland plugins, DBX, LA-3A) aren't anything special by today's standards even if they were good for plugins at the time of release. But their great plugins are really top notch - up their with the very best from other vendors. So I won't disagree with your general point.

[jamcat]

Studer is really the only one that doesn't hold up but that was never their good tape, anyway.

I actually swapped the IK Tape Machines with UAD Studer A800 across my individual tracks. (Still waiting for native Ampex for my master.)

It’s weird, because to me, the IK Tape Machines sound a little more detailed than UAD on a single track when soloed, but there is a weird cumulative phase effect when used across all the channels. I think it’s due to the convolution that IK is using. And the CPU is really a dealbreaker. I can’t justify going above 80% in Studio One at 48kHz when I can hover around 40% at 96kHz with UAD and get the same effect, but without the glassiness.

But maybe I’ll revisit the IK tapes when I get an M3 Max or better.

[sonidomolino]

But no one gives you 3 distinct models, except for UAD. UAD 1176AE has no equal.

and Overloud, just saying...
https://www.overloud.com/products/comp7 ... or-limiter
fwiw, Overloud Gems do a nice job of enhancing the original hw design with well thought out and useful features for working itb, which is where almost everyone is these days. And their LA-3A is really nice, which comes in a bundle with 2 different compressors, not 3 variations on a base model to inflate a plugin count to increase 'value'.

... UAD models are always 100% complete and true to the original hardware, which is rarely the case from any other developer.

imho, and ime, this claim has little practical value other than marketing hype given the inherent variation of analog -anything- in the real world, let alone any meaningful relevance to something like a client's joint. ya, in the past might have been picking "favorite" channels on a desk, but tbh, there are much more important factors, like mics, live rooms, and oh yeah, songs and performances. jmho.

[Agreed]

Studer is really the only one that doesn't hold up but that was never their good tape, anyway.

I actually swapped the IK Tape Machines with UAD Studer A800 across my individual tracks. (Still waiting for native Ampex for my master.)

It’s weird, because to me, the IK Tape Machines sound a little more detailed than UAD on a single track when soloed, but there is a weird cumulative phase effect when used across all the channels. I think it’s due to the convolution that IK is using. And the CPU is really a dealbreaker. I can’t justify going above 80% in Studio One at 48kHz when I can hover around 40% at 96kHz with UAD and get the same effect, but without the glassiness.

But maybe I’ll revisit the IK tapes when I get an M3 Max or better.

I love IK's tapes as a mix bus plugin, without tape emulation prior to that. I haven't encountered the cumulative effect, as a result, but I just adore (really, really do) what their tape machines can do at that spot. I have not tried the A800 before, but if it is something you use across multiple channels so that each one is going "to tape" on its own, that's interesting and I'll have to try it now that I'm in the UAD ecosystem.

[jamcat]

IK’s LA-2A is good, but it’s incomplete without the R37 pre-emphasis. So you only get about 10% of the functionality of the LA-2A. It’s only as good as the LA-2A Universal Audio gives away for free.

From what I recall, the IK version also doesn't do the fuzzbox thing when you crank the sh*t out of the gain. Note: you'll want to pad the output using a third party plugin like TrackControl if you do that.

IK modeled the tube saturation as well. IK’s gain is just not as hot, so you need to boost the gain going in with a third party plugin, if you want that much distortion out of it. Essentially the same thing you suggest with TrackControl, but in reverse.

Neither IK nor Arturia’s Space Echo is as good as UAD,

The UAD one sucks too. Audio Thing Outer Space for the win here. I don't use the Arturia, but I'd rate it over the UA m'self.

I rather like the UAD one. It just sounds more organic in a mix than Arturia’s. I think GSi GS-201 MkII may be the absolute best, though.

but their 1176LN models are comparable. But everyone does a decent 1176LN, including Pulsar. But no one gives you 3 distinct models, except for UAD. UAD 1176AE has no equal.

Disagree on the IK one being comparable. UA wins handily there (that AE sounds a lot like my Stam 1176 ADG hardware clone). But there are other 'just as good' ones from other plugin makers.

You’re probably talking about Purple Audio and Sonic Academy. I’ve heard good things about both of those. I’m sure some 1176 models are marginally better than others, but I don’t think it’s nearly as drastic as something like an LA-2A, where only UAD and IK seem to have nailed the program dependent behavior. Unlike an LA-2A, the 1176’s compression response is fairly simple. As long as it’s adequately fast, it should be good enough. But I also don’t have the goldenest of ears.

I really like UAD’s dbx 160, too. I own the Waves as well and I think UAD is better. There aren’t any other 160 models that I know of. Arturia’s is a 165, which is a soft-knee, not a hard-knee like the 160, and it doesn’t really do the 160 thing of getting a bass guitar or kick to start bouncing and momentarily punch through. The UAD 160 does it, and so does the Waves.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Studer is really the only one that doesn't hold up but that was never their good tape, anyway.

I actually swapped the IK Tape Machines with UAD Studer A800 across my individual tracks. (Still waiting for native Ampex for my master.)

It’s weird, because to me, the IK Tape Machines sound a little more detailed than UAD on a single track when soloed, but there is a weird cumulative phase effect when used across all the channels. I think it’s due to the convolution that IK is using. And the CPU is really a dealbreaker. I can’t justify going above 80% in Studio One at 48kHz when I can hover around 40% at 96kHz with UAD and get the same effect, but without the glassiness.

But maybe I’ll revisit the IK tapes when I get an M3 Max or better.

I should point out, I really use tape plugins sparingly these days. I've given up on trying to emulate a whole tape sound or workflow. Sometimes I think guitars or a drum bus may benefit and if it sounds better, it stays on. Otherwise, comes right off. I'm not doing the whole 16-tracks of IK Tapes thing. But I'd done that in the past with the UAD Studer and things always sounded less harsh with the plugin bypassed. And tape plugins shouldn't add harshness IMO.

[VitaminD]

Neither IK nor Arturia’s Space Echo is as good as UAD,

The UAD one sucks too. Audio Thing Outer Space for the win here. I don't use the Arturia, but I'd rate it over the UA m'self.

I was disappointed with the UA one too. But maybe I'm just disappointed with the hardware it is designed to replicate?

I think the UA Dimension Chorus plugin has a slightly more 'round' and pleasing sound than the Arturia one. But not enough to sway me from buying and using the Arturia one over the UA version. I had to A/B over and over on the same content to hear the difference. It's there but not enough for me to care. And if I don't care I doubt the listener is going to care either.

I do enjoy the UA GUIs more over the Arturia ones. They're really gorgeous. There might be a slight placebo effect as a result.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

You’re probably talking about Purple Audio and Sonic Academy. I’ve heard good things about both of those. I’m sure some 1176 models are marginally better than others, but I don’t think it’s nearly as drastic as something like an LA-2A, where only UAD and IK seem to have nailed the program dependent behavior. Unlike an LA-2A, the 1176’s compression response is fairly simple. As long as it’s adequately fast, it should be good enough. But I also don’t have the goldenest of ears.

I really like UAD’s dbx 160, too. I own the Waves as well and I think UAD is better. There aren’t any other 160 models that I know of. Arturia’s is a 165, which is a soft-knee, not a hard-knee like the 160, and it doesn’t really do the 160 thing of getting a bass guitar or kick to start bouncing and momentarily punch through. The UAD 160 does it, and so does the Waves.

Don't know Sonic Academy. I'm a big TrackComp fan other than the GUI, which I don't enjoy working with. IMO TrackComp does nice 76's, 160's, and LA-2A's (though paint outside the lines and go fast) - everything about it's sound is great IMO. The Purple is good. It's a more modern take on an 1176 though. It's not as raunchy as a true 1176. That's true of the hardware Purple which I used once in the studio many years ago.

[jamcat]

I should point out, I really use tape plugins sparingly these days. I've given up on trying to emulate a whole tape sound or workflow. Sometimes I think guitars or a drum bus may benefit and if it sounds better, it stays on. Otherwise, comes right off. I'm not doing the whole 16-tracks of IK Tapes thing. But I'd done that in the past with the UAD Studer and things always sounded less harsh with the plugin bypassed. And tape plugins shouldn't add harshness IMO.

I’m not getting that harshness you describe when using the UAD Studer across all channels. But I use it very lightly, just in default or maybe a 1.5dB boost on the input. I just use it to get the tape bass bump and hint at a little tape splatter on sharp transients. I find it actually rounds off the harshness on guitars a bit.

But I am still using the IK Ampex 440 tape on my master. I agree with you there, I wouldn’t use the UAD Studer A800 on the master. But I also wouldn’t use the IK Studer A80 on the master either. The Studer sound is too laidback for master tape, I think. Ampex makes it sound like rock n’ roll.

[beely]

Ampex makes it sound like rock n’ roll.

I'm waiting on the native version of this...

[jamcat]

Same here. The Ampex tape extension for LUNA is now native, and you can buy the LUNA bundle that includes both the LUNA extension and regular Ampex plugin without owning a UAD DSP device. But the regular plugin is still not yet native. It’s another case of Universal Audio not having their shit all together.

[Uncle E]

In case anyone is weighing UA against IK tapes, the Tape Machine Collection is now on sale for $39.99.

[Fornicras]

Is there still no better price for Signature Bundle for the multiple plugin owners? I still see it as $300. Asked support for a special discount, no reply so far.

[abi]

Is there still no better price for Signature Bundle for the multiple plugin owners? I still see it as $300. Asked support for a special discount, no reply so far.

Same here, no reply so far. I somewhere read a rumour saying that on Black Friday the signature bundle will be further reduced in price. But this is no official information.