MPE support public preview revision 15139 (ACE, Bazille, Diva, Hive)

[tasmaniandevil]

However, when mapping Control A to filter cutoff (with Control A as CC74) I only get modulation of the cutoff on every 15th note I press.

I can currently only try this with a Seaboard Rise, but it works quite well there, using Bitwig 5.1 beta 6 and the Bazille VST3 MPE beta.
A while ago we also tested MPE with the Linnstrument in Bitwig and it worked as well.
Did you set everything up as suggested in the first post of this thread?
Have you tried starting host playback to see if that maybe resets some things and fixes the problem?

[sj1]

Thanks for your reply TD. This morning, starting all afresh, Bazille seems to work great!

[sj1]

Hi.

Where can I find the MPE on/off button in Diva 15152 ?

Also, where in Diva can I see whether a patch is poly or mono?

Thanks.

[tasmaniandevil]

It's all in the MAIN tab at the bottom.
There's an "MPE Support" button, and the "Mode" menu let's you choose the voice mode.

[Tj Shredder]

I hope the CLAP versions will be working soon in Bitwig. Per voice modulation with some Bitwig modulators would be so great… But without per voice pitch its no fun… VST3 works fine so far…

[sj1]

Thank you TD, right you are. I need to get more used to your interfaces.

I like the way they look, but for some reason my eye passed right over what was right there!

Diva MPE.jpg

[Ou_Tis]

Separately, FWIW -

While I will happily go thru some hoops to get a soft-synth properly configured for MPE, I expect to have to do so only once, after which all my patches should ideally be MPE-ready-to go with the glide operational and the Y-Axis and Pressure soft-mapped to "good" destinations (which I can then change iff I want to).

If I have to visit each patch and futz with it to get MPE going, that's a likely "no-sale" for me, unf.

So, whether it's via a superior global MPE design, or whether it's perhaps via a separate default patch bank preconfigured for MPE (workable, but probably less desirable), that's what I'd be hoping to see (ala Pigments, Serum, etc.) from the vendor.

I'll add that the ideal situation IMO is to be able to simply turn MPE on and be ready-to-go for the Linnstrument (etc.) while being able to simply turn MPE off and be ready-to-go for any/all non-MPE keyboards or controllers. Obviously achieving this requires specific planning, and perhaps more programming time than otherwise. I think it is an investment worth making, and I just want to speak up for this goal because I believe it will do the most good for the largest number of music-makers, freeing countless hours for music-making creativity in the field for each hour of development creativity at the point-of-design.

Thanks!

Agreed, and the defaults set up for the presets in Bazille---which I've been demoing---are not good at all. Pressure typically does nothing. Very few presets use ctrl A meaningfully, and in almost every case it seems like it would be better to map Timbre/Slide to modwheel.

The gui for setting up MPE in Bazille is also bad, and the instructions are excessively vague. The MPE button and text are tiny, difficult to locate based on the instructions, and located in an unorthodox and counterintuitive place (they should be in Settings). The instructions should also explain that in order to change ctrl A to 74 you need to hold the left mouse button and drag. It was absurdly frustrating to click on it and see nothing happening.

Is there a way to map Pressure to output volume within the plugin using a single mapping? It seems like it won't let me map directly to output volume, and mapping pressure to all four oscillators every time I load a preset to demo is a very annoying waste of time.

This is especially bad for a very complicated and unorthodox synth like Bazille where many people will be relying heavily on presets.

Also, there seems to be a bug (I'm using the beta version you linked to in this thread) where the midi table is not displaying the mappings for presets.

Shouldn't it be relatively easy for the developer to automate adding MPE parameters to presets? They could then be put in their own directories. Or add a global option where we can map an MPE parameter (like pressure) to synth parameters and then lock it?

[pdxindy]

Shouldn't it be relatively easy for the developer to automate adding MPE parameters to presets?

Not in Bazille.

[sj1]

The instructions should also explain that in order to change ctrl A to 74 you need to hold the left mouse button and drag.

For sure, it would be very helpful to be able type in a CC number directly anywhere (e.g. the MIDI table) where CC numbers are used.

I suggest being able to just select the field and type, but if we have to double-click or Ctrl-click or right-click that would still be a big improvement.

[sj1]

On my Linnstrument I can set it to transmit MPE Timbre/Y as CC1 (instead of CC74) if desired. This is a fine way to take quick initial advantage of the CC1 mod routings which are probably present in all/most presets. I'd be curious to know if the Seaboard Rise 2, or other MPE hardwares also allow this.

It does also cross my mind that if there were an internal way to allow whatever CC is assigned to Ctrl-A and/or B to be transformed immediately (before distribution to destinations) to some other MIDI message or CC then we would be able to have any incoming (Ctrl-A and/or B) CC be distributed correctly to all the various destinations that might already be assigned throughout a preset in the library without having to re-wire/re-assign at every destination. I think that would be quite flexible and desirable, if reasonably possible to implement.

[pdxindy]

On my Linnstrument I can set it to transmit MPE Timbre/Y as CC1 (instead of CC74) if desired. This is a fine way to take quick initial advantage of the CC1 mod routings which are probably present in all/most presets. I'd be curious to know if the Seaboard Rise 2, or other MPE hardwares also allow this.

The CC1 mod routings in the synth are global, so you will get odd results sending per voice CC1's to it.

[sj1]

The CC1 mod routings in the synth are global, so you will get odd results sending per voice CC1's to it.

That's a good point!

If it would be difficult to optionally de-globalize those then my suggestion is moot.

If it wouldn't be too difficult then the results might be really impressive.

I mean, if per-voice CC74 can be implemented (as it has been), then per-voice CC1 could be also, at least theoretically! Maybe put it on a switch, "CC1: Global/Per-Voice". I'm just thinking out loud, maybe unrealistically.

I could put the question this way to U-he: IF you were to accept the goal to seriously MPE-ize the existing (Bazille, Diva, etc.) synth preset library, how would you likely choose to go about it?

[sj1]

Full disclosure: Any previous MPE-related protestations aside, at the Black Friday prices, and with knowing that MPE support is real (not just pie-in-the-sky) these synths are compelling, and I bought.

I'm LOVING the sounds of Bazille and Diva with the MPE slides. This is how it was meant to be!

Yeah, I'll have to do more one-by-one editing than ideal, and I hope something can eventually be done at the source to mitigate it, but all-in-all, the value (and the SOUND) is undeniable.

Recommended!

[sj1]

The CC1 mod routings in the synth are global, so you will get odd results sending per voice CC1's to it.

P.S. and to work with that fact, on the Linnstrument, set the low row to transmit CC1 (this is on the single global channel) and this covers it, albeit that you have to move your hand away from the notes* (as you would for a mod wheel).

*: unless you really get into some finger gymnastics!

[Fannon]

The CC1 mod routings in the synth are global, so you will get odd results sending per voice CC1's to it.

P.S. and to work with that fact, on the Linnstrument, set the low row to transmit CC1 (this is on the single global channel) and this covers it, albeit that you have to move your hand away from the notes* (as you would for a mod wheel).

*: unless you really get into some finger gymnastics!

This is how I do it. I use the Low-Row XYZ controller, where I customized the CC values for global modulation. And then pressure + timbre for per note modulation.