VPS Avenger 2.4 [RELEASED - FAQ in OP]

[simmo75]

Anyone posting about CPU spikes - only worth posting if you not only say what your system is but also if you have tried 2.0.2, which has eliminated issues for some.

Fair question: M1 Max, 64GB, 4TB MBP / Monterey. I'm on the latest version of Avenger 1.8.6 arm64 (have 4 expansions currently), and it's pretty bad.

Haven't tried the update because I'm not giving them any more money until I am reasonably sure this has been solved.

That’s a good call! I should’ve done the same…

The spikes on my 2023 Apple MacBook Pro, M3 Max running Sonoma, are really bad.

This needs fixing ASAP!

But again - what Avenger version are you on?

AVENGER 2.03

[Hanz Meyzer]

I really have no rational explanation, why you guys at vengeance are not addressing these issues… is this some kind of “works on my pc” thing? Or is nobody in your team responsible for such work? Why not temporarily hire another experienced dev, e.g. Uhe or so?

[kkvvrr]

If it helps anybody:

Its running very nicely on my 2015 mbp… (mojave)

I did encounter a bug that was reported and surely will be fixed. Support and coders seem very competent and friendly actually… (once you get a connection and talk to them) they probably have a lot of traffic to deal with atm… understandable. (i was screaming from the rooftops myself… but they addressed the initial issue at breakneck speeds) (older systems compatibility) and wow, its nice to see such a new synth respecting older systems..!)
-M3 is barely a month old… give it a sec or so ? Idk..lol… in any case, dont panic peeps;)

That being said:

V2 is fantastic… a really huge improvement over v1. Everything is nicely accessible, sounds good, fun to play with, no runtime issues here…

Good stuff.

Thanks:)

[DCrown]

I really have no rational explanation, why you guys at vengeance are not addressing these issues… is this some kind of “works on my pc” thing? Or is nobody in your team responsible for such work? Why not temporarily hire another experienced dev, e.g. Uhe or so?

If U-he was be hired, we might have real serious cpu-issues afterwards haha

[MirkoVanHauten]

#doubt

[briefcasemanx]

Definitely not worth the steep upgrade price. I bought Current instead. Everything from this company is a gross cash grab. Everything is always way too expensive, with other devs consistently providing more, and better, for less.

Hopefully Current won't follow in the footsteps of Avenger with cash grabbyness. We'll see.

Dude..High price? with the Black Friday discount it's 89 dollars, what 3 1/2 large Pizzas cost here at Brizios Pizzeria in the USA. If you knew how complex and tedious it is to program a synthesizer of the level of Avenger 2 you would change your mind. Thank God 99% of VPS users think otherwise, the price is right for the quality you are getting. Good luck with Current!

Im a programmer and I do some DSP work, so I have some idea. I very much doubt that 99% of VPS users will upgrade their version 1 to version 2 for $89 dollars. I would bet probably every asset I own that that is not the case. If you don't care about $89 dollars, that's cool, some people do care about $89 and weigh the value they are getting with that $89 against other companies offerings in the marketplace.

For people that don't care about $89, of course they're not going to care about the prices that this company charges for things. But they should probably also have the self-awareness not to argue with people that do actually care about $89.

If U-he was be hired, we might have real serious cpu-issues afterwards haha

And you base this off of...?

[cb8rwh]

Hopefully a quick question. Am I correct in saying that to make a preset play monophonically I have to set each OSC to 1/1 voices? There isn't a way just to set the whole preset as mono?

[msvs]

you can see how different different computers are, performance wise (see cpu test)

[noiseboyuk]

I just did the above test (AR Acid Bass I think it is) on my M2 Macbook in Cubase 13, core audio 256 buffer, ASIO Guard medium. I reckon it's about 48 tracks here playing without any glitches or complaints, which is pretty good. That patch reports about 7% CPU within Avenger for a single instance.

I do see the occasional spike on a live track, but it never glitched audio.

For anyone who is getting debilitating spikes, I'd suggest making a video and sending to Rene with full specs.

[danielh02]

I bought the upgrade and see two Factory Content expansions ("Factory Content" and "Factory Content 2") in my account.

On a new system install, do I just need to install "Factory Content 2" or do I need both?

[SLiC]

I bought the upgrade and see two Factory Content expansions ("Factory Content" and "Factory Content 2") in my account.

On a new system install, do I just need to install "Factory Content 2" or do I need both?

Both

[Lucas963]

Anyone else unable to open a saved FL Studio projects?

No, saved projects using Avenger 2 are loading fine here in FL Studio. (Win 10)

Which version of FL are you using? There was an update just rolled out a few days ago but I haven't applied it yet.

I'm on the most recent version of FL Studio (v21.2.1) but the issue is 100% with connection to the Avenger 2 upgrade. I think I figured it out now. Basically if I have many instances of Avenger 2 opened and save the project without closing all Avenger windows (by pressing X on each instance of Avenger 2 or by going to "View" > "Close all plugin windows") prior to saving down the project, it's very likely I'll experience crash on loading. The crash occurs after the entire project has been "loaded / nearly loaded" but before dumping all instances of Avenger 2 on screen, if that makes sense. So to avoid issue with being unable to load my projects, I need to make sure to close all VPS Avenger 2 windows prior to saving down a project. Almost seems like there's something wrong with loading the visual interface of Avenger 2 and that visual interface loading is causing a crash (unless I'm running out of memory? (32GB RAM))

This only occurs when you're using a lot of Avenger 2 instances in your project (i.e. 10+), and it has never been an issue with Avenger 1. Never experienced a single problem with loading project using Avenger 1, even when I had 15+ instances of Avenger 1 windows open during saving down the project.

It would be great if you could have a look at this when you get a chance Manuel.

But this is only issue I'm having, other than that I'm super happy with the upgrade. This synth is a work of art, truly amazing stuff!! Looking forward to new expansions later in December.

[X-cytr]

Anyone posting about CPU spikes - only worth posting if you not only say what your system is but also if you have tried 2.0.2, which has eliminated issues for some.

Fair question: M1 Max, 64GB, 4TB MBP / Monterey. I'm on the latest version of Avenger 1.8.6 arm64 (have 4 expansions currently), and it's pretty bad.

Haven't tried the update because I'm not giving them any more money until I am reasonably sure this has been solved.

That’s a good call! I should’ve done the same…

The spikes on my 2023 Apple MacBook Pro, M3 Max running Sonoma, are really bad.

This needs fixing ASAP!

But again - what Avenger version are you on?

AVENGER 2.03

Here also.... Mac M1 Pro Ventura... Avenger v2.0.3 crackles and drop outs on Ableton 11 and Bitwig...

[Hanz Meyzer]

you can see how different different computers are, performance wise (see cpu test)

The problem is here that the Cubase cpu meter rounds the usage over time, so a very high but also very short spike will almost have no effect on the final result.

Also Cubase has some special buffer techniques AFAIK which no other DAW uses (e.g. he did activate ASIO guard, as you can see in the cpu meter popup). Also the guy did simply select a "medium heavy patch", not choosing a configuration, which obvoiusly spikes. As far as I found out, the ARP and pitch slides for example often will cause those spikes. Also the sample player. But since I cannot look at the code, this is totally guessed. Also the guy simply has a 32 threads cpu, so then barely a cpu core would have to calculate multiple Avenger instances.

So the "test" you linked is a totally useless test. I agree with you that a lot of parts in Avenger seem to be nicely optimized. But some are not!

Please try with the Bitwig cpu usage graph, I think it also is inside the Bitwig demoversion. Click the cpu symbol here:

Bildschirmfoto 2023-12-02 um 04.09.37.png

Then this should appear:

Bildschirmfoto 2023-12-02 um 04.09.46.png

Also Rene should be able to accurately measure every single part of the code using the debugger tools of xcode.

Maybe there is a difference in mac vs windows version, but I highly doubt that. Maybe it is a problem of the compilation settings and the different c++ compilers on each system, no idea.

Here are some examples that you could compare on your machine (pretty sure it will be very similar): Choose "ARP/AR Essentials of Science" in factory 1. Set your audio output to 48kHz, 256 samples.

This is a single note of the above patch in Avenger on my extremely powerful M1 pro cpu:

Bildschirmfoto 2023-12-02 um 04.20.23.png

Imagine now this instance was multiplied, playing the exact same notes at the same time: It will quickly cause audio dropouts. Since a drop out happens as soon as A SINGLE CORE IS REACHING ITS 100% LIMIT.

For comparison, this is a single note of a very heavy polyphonic arp patch in Zebra 2 using notes with too long release:

Bildschirmfoto 2023-12-02 um 04.27.48.png

See how evenly the usage arises with every added up sustained note, even on heavy calculation? This is the key point here:

SPIKES SHOULD BE AVOIDED IN REALTIME DSP CALCULCATION AT ALL COSTS. It will make even light patches very cpu heavy. And will lead into unexpected dropouts in context with other plugins.

Manuel, AFAIK you have the same old rusty intel cpu like me, something like i7 4770. Can you please try the steps above then on your system?

This only occurs when you're using a lot of Avenger 2 instances in your project

Your bug description sounds to me that there are two bad things happening at once:
- A memory leak
- The plugin seems to share code and objects in a wrong way. So each instance will affect the stability of the others.

What happens, if you enable sandboxing? Did you enable sandboxing in your daw? What is your system, mac arm, mac intel or windows?

[noiseboyuk]

Also Cubase has some special buffer techniques AFAIK which no other DAW uses

Interesting post, and you might well be on to something here. I've had no issues with Avenger, but I exclusively use it in Cubase with ASIOguard on.

That said, most people with issues do seem to be on Macs. Does anyone have this spiking as a major problem on Windows?