OK, I've had Tracktion for a week or so and I'm hooked. I want to record blues, rock, and pop and I need some drums. Beta Monkey looks like a perfect match.
I've never used drum loops before so can someone that has used Beta Monkey loops clue me in? For example, I understand that Beta Monkey loops don't have cymbal crashes at the end of fills for flexibility. So, how do I put a crash and kick on the downbeat at the end of a fill and then go back to the groove?
If someone can point me to a Tracktion drum loop tutorial or any other hints I would be most grateful.
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Chris Hardin
Beta Monkey Drum Loops In Tracktion
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SuitcaseOfLizards SuitcaseOfLizards https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=2363 - KVRAF
- 10879 posts since 3 Apr, 2002 from Austin, TX USA
I own 5 Beta Monkey CDs and I love them! They're all over my tunes..
The key is to get at least one of the CDs that has individual hits on it. Set up your normal loops on one track in Tracktion, then just insert and position your crash, ride, or other percussion on other tracks and move the clips around until you're happy. I usually end up with 3 to 4 tracks for drums - one for the basic groove (which includes loops with fills, something that rocks about Beta Monkey CDs - plenty of beats with fills to spice up the drum patterns), one for crashes, one for extra percussion, and one for percussion FX (reversed cymbals, that kind of thing).
It can be kind of fiddly to line up hits across multiple tracks, just position the cursor where you want your hit/etc. to be and use it as a guide on the other tracks. You will find the "Move Clip"/"Move start to cursor position" and "Move end to cursor position" to be insanely useful here!
It's a good thing drum loop CDs exist, because I can't drum - or program drums - to save my life!
I hope this helps!
The key is to get at least one of the CDs that has individual hits on it. Set up your normal loops on one track in Tracktion, then just insert and position your crash, ride, or other percussion on other tracks and move the clips around until you're happy. I usually end up with 3 to 4 tracks for drums - one for the basic groove (which includes loops with fills, something that rocks about Beta Monkey CDs - plenty of beats with fills to spice up the drum patterns), one for crashes, one for extra percussion, and one for percussion FX (reversed cymbals, that kind of thing).
It can be kind of fiddly to line up hits across multiple tracks, just position the cursor where you want your hit/etc. to be and use it as a guide on the other tracks. You will find the "Move Clip"/"Move start to cursor position" and "Move end to cursor position" to be insanely useful here!
It's a good thing drum loop CDs exist, because I can't drum - or program drums - to save my life!
I hope this helps!
Bandcamp: https://suitcaseoflizards.bandcamp.com/
Linux Mint, Waveform 13 Pro, U-He synths, Audio Damage effects,.
Linux Mint, Waveform 13 Pro, U-He synths, Audio Damage effects,.
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
I have Drum Werks V and it's awesome. Read the above. 
In addition to what woolyloach has already adviced (re. cymbals and additional sounds), here's something to be aware of:
Not all of the loops are -precisely- the bpm tempo that they are labelled with. This is because they're all drawn from live performance and contain just a touch of human error. One of your loops in a 90bpm folder might actually be 89.4 bpm while another may be 90.1. I only mention it because it's important to know, but by all means, get the Beta Monkey stuff regardless or even BECAUSE of this human error!
How to cope:
1- arrange your drum track first. That way you'll have the loops in order and you can leave the human error intact. This is what I've been doing for the most part.
2- use a beatslicer (like eXT or MicroDicer) so that you can transparently adjust the bpm to be exactly your host tempo. This is the option I'm currently mucking about with.
3- Just use the beats as-is, and let them either overlap or fall short of the next measure by the wee little bit. It won't be noticeable.
4- Use timestretch to fit them into the required tempo. For +- 0.5 bpm, you won't notice a significant change in the signal. Make sure that you're not pitch-shifting at the same time, though, or you WILL notice even that small change in speed when going from one loop to the next.
To sum it up-- these loops kick ass, and the one little 'quirk' is actually a plus if you ask me, and if you don't see it that way it's still really easy to work with.
Greg
In addition to what woolyloach has already adviced (re. cymbals and additional sounds), here's something to be aware of:
Not all of the loops are -precisely- the bpm tempo that they are labelled with. This is because they're all drawn from live performance and contain just a touch of human error. One of your loops in a 90bpm folder might actually be 89.4 bpm while another may be 90.1. I only mention it because it's important to know, but by all means, get the Beta Monkey stuff regardless or even BECAUSE of this human error!
How to cope:
1- arrange your drum track first. That way you'll have the loops in order and you can leave the human error intact. This is what I've been doing for the most part.
2- use a beatslicer (like eXT or MicroDicer) so that you can transparently adjust the bpm to be exactly your host tempo. This is the option I'm currently mucking about with.
3- Just use the beats as-is, and let them either overlap or fall short of the next measure by the wee little bit. It won't be noticeable.
4- Use timestretch to fit them into the required tempo. For +- 0.5 bpm, you won't notice a significant change in the signal. Make sure that you're not pitch-shifting at the same time, though, or you WILL notice even that small change in speed when going from one loop to the next.
To sum it up-- these loops kick ass, and the one little 'quirk' is actually a plus if you ask me, and if you don't see it that way it's still really easy to work with.
Greg
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SuitcaseOfLizards SuitcaseOfLizards https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=2363
- KVRAF
- 10879 posts since 3 Apr, 2002 from Austin, TX USA
Yeah, I have noticed small imperfections - so far, I just leave 'em in since I'm playing in "live" over the top of the drums and can compensate manually.
I haven't tried a beat slicer.. maybe it's time to download the demo of Dicer. What beat slicer do you use Lunch Money?
Nice to see I'm not the only Beta Monkey fan here!
I haven't tried a beat slicer.. maybe it's time to download the demo of Dicer. What beat slicer do you use Lunch Money?
Nice to see I'm not the only Beta Monkey fan here!
Bandcamp: https://suitcaseoflizards.bandcamp.com/
Linux Mint, Waveform 13 Pro, U-He synths, Audio Damage effects,.
Linux Mint, Waveform 13 Pro, U-He synths, Audio Damage effects,.
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- KVRian
- 1278 posts since 24 May, 2004
A drumloop library? Not very creative, if you ask me...
Use breaks.
Use breaks.
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
I use the beatslicer that's included in energyXT. I'm effin' lazy, though, so I just slice, export, then render to audio right now. pHz has given me a great suggestion on using it for multiple loops, but I haven't taken the time to explore it yet. eXT does the trick just fine, though!woolyloach wrote:I haven't tried a beat slicer.. maybe it's time to download the demo of Dicer. What beat slicer do you use Lunch Money?
I've always liked coFX Dicer, too, but I still haven't purchased it because the timing's been off for me. With the release of microDicer and a no-loss upgrade policy (last I heard), it's also a great option. eXT is more full-featured than microDicer (for simple beatslicing), but full Dicer is already more full-featured than eXT, and Jon's soon to come out with a new version.
Superstition-- that's certainly an opinion, but I don't buy it myself. I consider myself a guitarist for sure, and a wannabe singer and wannabe keyboardist at best. Definitely not a drummer. I agree that it IS creative and rewarding to try programming beats, but there's a flipside: if I'm in a band with some guys, I let the drummer do his job. He'll surely do it better than me. With a loop library, at least you can pick an appropriate style for your song and let the drummer be the drummer, just like in a real band. The end result for me invariably sounds better, fits more what I hear in my head, and is accomplished more quickly.
When I try to program my own acoustic-style beats (ie. not electronica, hip-hop, etc) they always lack humanity. To me, THAT is sacrificing creative vision more than just using a carefully-selected loop. The nice thing about Beta Monkey loops is that they include a LOT of variations, fills, and also "simple" beats that are good building blocks for adding your own additional elements; meaning that you have a lot to choose from and aren't limited to only 5 or 6 different loops for your song.
Also, Drum Werks V (and some of the other titles) include single hits, for programming measures that the loop drummer didn't come up with, and when you just HAVE to have a certain tom pattern, cymbal swell, etc. I don't see how that flexibility could be taking away from potential creativity.
And finally, how are breaks creative? You sample a break from another artist, slice it up and re-arrange it. Cool and all, and I LOVE the sounds you can get from breaks, but at the core of it all, they're really just sliced loops, too.
Greg
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- KVRist
- 112 posts since 14 Jun, 2004 from Richland, WA
I've got a wide selection of Beta Monkey loops and they are typically very good and very useful. Tracktion isn't really ideal for using loops, in that it doesn't automatically stretch loops (as does Sonar, Acid, Adobe Audition, etc.), but I'm guessing that will be one of the changes in T2.
http://www.EricHermanMusic.com
- Cool Tunes for Kids -
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Agreed that it's not ideal; however, not TOO painful.
Greg
Greg
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 649 posts since 18 Dec, 2004
Many thanks to all for responding.
Now for another question -- Which Beta Monkey disk would be a good start for blues/rock and still be easy to use in Tracktion?
Now for another question -- Which Beta Monkey disk would be a good start for blues/rock and still be easy to use in Tracktion?
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
They'll all be equally as "easy" to use. It really depends on what kind of blues/rock you do. There were many sets of loops in Drum Werks V that I could use, but they're all 4/4, so if you like doing a 12/8 blues, look elsewhere.
Vol. 3 is dedicated to bluesey stuff, but I'd probably go with the newest Vol. 6, as he will have implemented the things that worked and gotten rid of the things that didn't. I know that Vol. 5 was very well organized, so 6 should be the same, meaning that it'll be quick and easy to find the loops you want/need. It also has a standalone set of multisamples for a drum kit, which Vol. 3 doesn't have.
I noticed that you can get a 'custom 3-pack' which means you can pick any 3 discs for one discounted price. You could always get vol. 3, 5, and 6 and you'd be sorted.
Greg
Vol. 3 is dedicated to bluesey stuff, but I'd probably go with the newest Vol. 6, as he will have implemented the things that worked and gotten rid of the things that didn't. I know that Vol. 5 was very well organized, so 6 should be the same, meaning that it'll be quick and easy to find the loops you want/need. It also has a standalone set of multisamples for a drum kit, which Vol. 3 doesn't have.
I noticed that you can get a 'custom 3-pack' which means you can pick any 3 discs for one discounted price. You could always get vol. 3, 5, and 6 and you'd be sorted.
Greg
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- KVRian
- 1283 posts since 13 Nov, 2004
this may be too complicated or too expensive, but I feel the need to post! 
I love drum loops.......LOVE THEM. But it has been too hard to get odd times and edit in cymbal types or find the tempos I want.....etc.
In tracktion(and only in tracktion), GROOVE AGENT works FLAWLESSLY and here is the big advantage. I can make it 5/8, 3/4, 15/16 or.....even 4/4 and any DAMN TEMPO I want!. Don't like the drum sounds? Ok, that is easy to fix....just unlink the kit with groove. Want to edit and take out the pedal hat (way too intense most of the time...) that's easy cause you can make a full midi export and edit as you wish. Make full tracks without allot of fuss.....simple, B2 thru C5(?) will just trigger the next part in real time.
Ok, I've gone overboard.......well maybe it's useful info
I love drum loops.......LOVE THEM. But it has been too hard to get odd times and edit in cymbal types or find the tempos I want.....etc.
In tracktion(and only in tracktion), GROOVE AGENT works FLAWLESSLY and here is the big advantage. I can make it 5/8, 3/4, 15/16 or.....even 4/4 and any DAMN TEMPO I want!. Don't like the drum sounds? Ok, that is easy to fix....just unlink the kit with groove. Want to edit and take out the pedal hat (way too intense most of the time...) that's easy cause you can make a full midi export and edit as you wish. Make full tracks without allot of fuss.....simple, B2 thru C5(?) will just trigger the next part in real time.
Ok, I've gone overboard.......well maybe it's useful info
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- KVRAF
- 9096 posts since 5 Feb, 2004
Where do you get Groove Monkey midi clips?PT wrote:How about Groove Monkey midi clips?
Just use them to trigger your drum samples.
And since they are midi there is no tempo problem.
I've only tries some of the jazz give-aways.
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- KVRist
- 317 posts since 13 Oct, 2001 from Mars