Lush 2 has a very good supersaw. Here it is with internal delay/reverb and some PA MAAG EQ to open up the top end some more (maybe too much). Only issue here is it's CPU heavy and crashed on me multiple times while I was trying to make this. I'm running version 2.0 though and I know there's been a minor update.
https://soundcloud.com/aiyn-zahev/desti ... al_sharing
Comparing 30 VSTi Supersaws (MYR one)
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- KVRAF
- 4083 posts since 29 Jun, 2011 from USA
Aiynzahev-sounds
Sound Designer - Soundsets for Pigments, Repro, Diva, Virus TI, Nord Lead 4, Serum, DUNE2, Spire, and others
Sound Designer - Soundsets for Pigments, Repro, Diva, Virus TI, Nord Lead 4, Serum, DUNE2, Spire, and others
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- KVRAF
- 20662 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California
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- KVRian
- 1172 posts since 21 Jul, 2012
Aiynzahev wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 6:06 pm Lush 2 has a very good supersaw. Here it is with internal delay/reverb and some PA MAAG EQ to open up the top end some more (maybe too much). Only issue here is it's CPU heavy and crashed on me multiple times while I was trying to make this. I'm running version 2.0 though and I know there's been a minor update.
https://soundcloud.com/aiyn-zahev/desti ... al_sharing
Sounds good to me Aiyn. No over the top highs imo.
Personally I am quite pleased with Sylenth and Vital for those type of sounds.
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- KVRAF
- 4083 posts since 29 Jun, 2011 from USA
gosh, first off I need it to stop crashing.
Aiynzahev-sounds
Sound Designer - Soundsets for Pigments, Repro, Diva, Virus TI, Nord Lead 4, Serum, DUNE2, Spire, and others
Sound Designer - Soundsets for Pigments, Repro, Diva, Virus TI, Nord Lead 4, Serum, DUNE2, Spire, and others
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- KVRAF
- 35671 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
It's user based. E.g., I see a production video of artist XY on Future Music, and see that he uses synth AB on it, and I can add him as an artist with a mention of the source (the video).Urs wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 2:15 pmI just checked out five of some of our most famous users there. Not sure how these equipment lists come about, but as for our stuff, every single one of these lists were incomplete. Hence, I wouldn't dismiss that something like P8 is still more relevant in reality than on those kinds of boards.
So, yeah, of course it is incomplete, but, it's better than nothing. Actually, the best source I found on the net for stuff like that.
I'm sure the one or the other known artist uses Superwave P8, but, really, it's rather rare, from what I've seen.
The free Superwave P8 was one of the first soft synths I ever used (with Novation Bass Station), but, I quickly switched to other stuff. It's really not that legendary IMO.
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- KVRAF
- 20662 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California
That’s ok, I’ll get your Diva pack instead. I guess the first one would be best for these sounds?
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- KVRAF
- 4083 posts since 29 Jun, 2011 from USA
Yeah I’d say the first one is a great start, will get you just about all the nostalgia
Aiynzahev-sounds
Sound Designer - Soundsets for Pigments, Repro, Diva, Virus TI, Nord Lead 4, Serum, DUNE2, Spire, and others
Sound Designer - Soundsets for Pigments, Repro, Diva, Virus TI, Nord Lead 4, Serum, DUNE2, Spire, and others
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- KVRAF
- 1572 posts since 21 Nov, 2018
Did you ever get anywhere with Chro-8080 ? I remember mailing you like 1 or 2 years ago to put it on your radar because I wanted you to port your JP presets to it
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- KVRist
- 124 posts since 18 Feb, 2012 from United States
Hey everyone, the video is mine (I've been a lurker here for years) - thanks for the post here; I didn't want to self-promote the video. Much of this was my subjective opinion, and apologies Urs because you're right, the version of Hive I was using was an old 2.0 copy that I never bothered to update on that computer.
I plan on making a pt 2 which also includes some hardware - I have two virus TI2s, a JP8080, and a Novationa Ultranova (though I can't get the ultranova editor to work anymore - ugh). I would have loved to include Coronoa - I actually was considering Corona or Discovery, but it was Coronoa that has the Super-7 engine. I just don't think I have a license, though I remember trying out the demo a long time ago.
A few I left out:
V-Station - Discontinued, no per-oscillator unison, but still great
Synth1 - No per-oscillator unison
Sunrizer - I have the discontinued VST version, but it was giving me audio hiccups so I had to take it out of the running.
Viper/JP6K - I'm on a mac so unfortunately I can't, though I do plug Szabo in the video because he certainly knows what he is doing
Superwave P8 - Back when I was on PC I had a lot of fun with this one
If I do a Pt 2, I'll include Corona, the latest version of Hive, the JP & TI2, along with V-Station and maybe Thor (I have the reason bundle). I could also do DAW specific synths but I've found most are pretty trash at this - with the exception of FL Studio's such as Sytrus and Toxic Biohazard. I was not a fan of the unison on Ableton's stock plugins for instance.
I had a bunch of old 32-bit PC plugins I used to love for this. These included Z3ta+ (and its sequel), this old plugin called Gemini 2.0, Super7 from CFA sound, which I can no longer use.
As Sami mentioned, I've found emulating the JP exactly is tough to do. If you look at Szabo's paper you'll notice the JP does not have a linear detune curve, which makes comparisons even more difficult. What would have been cool is to look at the way the voices are spread - whether they have a linear detune, whether this changes based on the frequency (it would make sense to have the detune amount scale with frequency due to our logarithmic perception of pitch). Furthermore, some methods detune the "outer" voices differently than the fundamental (with a "mix" control that adjusts the balance between the center saw and the detuned ones), whereas for others they are all layered the same.
Someone here mentioned L/R magnitude plots, however keep in mind the original JP was a mono signal, so this wouldn't show too much for some of these. The decision on which voices to spread and how (do we spread the most detuned ones farther left and right, do it randomly, etc?) is another factor in comparison. If you want me to do any more or add any more to the project let me know.
Most of my released tracks use Spire for most of the main lead layers, with a layer from Serum, Diva, or Dune here and there. All gets bussed and run through an SSL G Compressor, Arts Acoustic Reverb (RIP), the Ozone Imager, and a Maag EQ4.
For the record I don't want this to be some sort of "definitive" or "scientific" guide to supersaws or anything like that - there's a lot I don't know and I don't want to piss off any devs. Of course there's always the "you didn't use it correctly" comments (which I expect); a fair criticism made worse by the fact there are some synths I'm simply more familiar with than others. I originally wanted to title the video "My uncensored opinion on over 30+ VSTi Supersaws," but I was worried that would make me sound angry or sweary.
I plan on making a pt 2 which also includes some hardware - I have two virus TI2s, a JP8080, and a Novationa Ultranova (though I can't get the ultranova editor to work anymore - ugh). I would have loved to include Coronoa - I actually was considering Corona or Discovery, but it was Coronoa that has the Super-7 engine. I just don't think I have a license, though I remember trying out the demo a long time ago.
A few I left out:
V-Station - Discontinued, no per-oscillator unison, but still great
Synth1 - No per-oscillator unison
Sunrizer - I have the discontinued VST version, but it was giving me audio hiccups so I had to take it out of the running.
Viper/JP6K - I'm on a mac so unfortunately I can't, though I do plug Szabo in the video because he certainly knows what he is doing
Superwave P8 - Back when I was on PC I had a lot of fun with this one
If I do a Pt 2, I'll include Corona, the latest version of Hive, the JP & TI2, along with V-Station and maybe Thor (I have the reason bundle). I could also do DAW specific synths but I've found most are pretty trash at this - with the exception of FL Studio's such as Sytrus and Toxic Biohazard. I was not a fan of the unison on Ableton's stock plugins for instance.
I had a bunch of old 32-bit PC plugins I used to love for this. These included Z3ta+ (and its sequel), this old plugin called Gemini 2.0, Super7 from CFA sound, which I can no longer use.
As Sami mentioned, I've found emulating the JP exactly is tough to do. If you look at Szabo's paper you'll notice the JP does not have a linear detune curve, which makes comparisons even more difficult. What would have been cool is to look at the way the voices are spread - whether they have a linear detune, whether this changes based on the frequency (it would make sense to have the detune amount scale with frequency due to our logarithmic perception of pitch). Furthermore, some methods detune the "outer" voices differently than the fundamental (with a "mix" control that adjusts the balance between the center saw and the detuned ones), whereas for others they are all layered the same.
Someone here mentioned L/R magnitude plots, however keep in mind the original JP was a mono signal, so this wouldn't show too much for some of these. The decision on which voices to spread and how (do we spread the most detuned ones farther left and right, do it randomly, etc?) is another factor in comparison. If you want me to do any more or add any more to the project let me know.
Most of my released tracks use Spire for most of the main lead layers, with a layer from Serum, Diva, or Dune here and there. All gets bussed and run through an SSL G Compressor, Arts Acoustic Reverb (RIP), the Ozone Imager, and a Maag EQ4.
For the record I don't want this to be some sort of "definitive" or "scientific" guide to supersaws or anything like that - there's a lot I don't know and I don't want to piss off any devs. Of course there's always the "you didn't use it correctly" comments (which I expect); a fair criticism made worse by the fact there are some synths I'm simply more familiar with than others. I originally wanted to title the video "My uncensored opinion on over 30+ VSTi Supersaws," but I was worried that would make me sound angry or sweary.
"FriendZone"
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- KVRAF
- 4066 posts since 3 Jul, 2022
Thanks for being active on the forum and making it more interestingUrs wrote: Fri Jan 05, 2024 4:49 pmIn computer graphics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mipmap
In synthesis/oscillators when we do mip mapping, we store waveforms as short sample loops, and for each waveform we have a dozen or so variants of each waveform that have fewer and fewer overtones. Such that, at different oscillator frequencies we use that variant of the waveform which has few enough harmonics to play back without audible aliasing.
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- KVRAF
- 20662 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California
“All 30+ of these synths are f***ing hot garbage!!!”paulm12 wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 11:20 pm I originally wanted to title the video "My uncensored opinion on over 30+ VSTi Supersaws," but I was worried that would make me sound angry or sweary.
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- KVRist
- 124 posts since 18 Feb, 2012 from United States
Except for the one who’s developer paid me
jkjk
Last edited by paulm12 on Mon Jan 08, 2024 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
"FriendZone"
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- u-he
- 30174 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
That may be a good guess for a ready-to-use list, but the sample size is very small (less than 0.1% of overall sales) and hardly the most reliable possible. For instance, some results are based directly (website etc.) or indirectly (interviews etc.) on artist endorsement deals. Companies who don't do those may be underrepresented.chk071 wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 8:24 pm So, yeah, of course it is incomplete, but, it's better than nothing. Actually, the best source I found on the net for stuff like that.
There are ways to get much more detailed results from the internet, but they involve actual research.
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- u-he
- 30174 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
I'm working on a synth engine with 1000 free running sine oscillators, and tuning them all to a single frequency with a bit of detune sounds kind of... let's just say, it won't be a thingegbert101 wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 9:41 am One day, people will discover supersines and the electronic music scene will explode.
