Being teased into upgrades...

[JamminFool]

"being teased" is called marketing. it is designed to do exactly what you fell victim to.

i'm not sure who you are blaming for that.

No, marketing is showing your new software version being used by some current star. Adding features to your software and charging for them is just software development. If they added something that you wanted and will make use of, well, I don’t really see a problem with it. Despite popular opinion, software development is difficult and time consuming. The people who do it deserve to make a living, just like everyone else. If you don’t want it, don’t buy it. I’m skipping Arturia’s V Collection X, as it has nothing new in it that I want. All the cute girls in belly shirts in the world couldn’t convince me to buy it, and I love cute girls in belly shirts.

yes, of course adding features is part of software development. i think you may have missed my point, though.

buying a new version because one was "teased" into it is a result of good marketing. and we have no one but ourselves to blame if we fall victim to it.

[zerocrossing]

"being teased" is called marketing. it is designed to do exactly what you fell victim to.

i'm not sure who you are blaming for that.

No, marketing is showing your new software version being used by some current star. Adding features to your software and charging for them is just software development. If they added something that you wanted and will make use of, well, I don’t really see a problem with it. Despite popular opinion, software development is difficult and time consuming. The people who do it deserve to make a living, just like everyone else. If you don’t want it, don’t buy it. I’m skipping Arturia’s V Collection X, as it has nothing new in it that I want. All the cute girls in belly shirts in the world couldn’t convince me to buy it, and I love cute girls in belly shirts.

yes, of course adding features is part of software development. i think you may have missed my point, though.

buying a new version because one was "teased" into it is a result of good marketing. and we have no one but ourselves to blame if we fall victim to it.

I guess I see a difference between communication with customers and marketing to be two different things. So, a photo of a car with its features and specs underneath it, isn’t really what I’d call marketing, though technically I guess it is. Now a picture of the car that’s got a mom driving her kids home from a soccer game, that’s marketing to me. It’s telling you very little about the car, but suggesting the kind of life you can attain if you buy the car, which is pretty much fiction.

[jonljacobi]

Have you tried Reaper?

Yes, and I love the configurability... Right up until I can't change the look of the dialogs or remove the default toolbar. I actually spent a lot of time reworking menus a couple versions back, but it just didn't ever mesh with me.

[jonljacobi]

No, I like new features and Live 12 doesn’t feel any more cluttered than previous versions. A little cleaner visually actually.

That's what makes the world go around, but there's absolutely more stuff in view (definitely in the piano roll which is what really bugs me) so I'm not really seeing how you get there.

I'm glad it makes you feel that way, but it wouldn't kill them to allow user to hide what they don't want or need.

[jonljacobi]

Obviously, the interface is a matter of taste so I don't want to say what's right, or wrong.

I've always had issues with Live's lack of GUI customization. I actually like the main page's new look and it does seem a little cleaner icon-wise when you don't have a lot open. It's when you drill down that things get really cluttered to me: the piano roll, the browser, and the context menus have gotten quite a bit busier/longer.

What I really want is for Ableton and all DAWs to allow user customization of the interface so people can tailor it to their specific needs and get rid of the stuff they don't. Some do, some don't and to varying degrees.

I don't care how many features they add if they don't get in my way. Somebody somewhere wants or needs them so it's all good.

It's simply my feeling that as of version 12, all the tools and stuff are really starting to annoy me visually. I also feel that they aren't being implemented nearly as cleverly as Ableton used to implement stuff.

But that's not really the topic here. It's more about the constant upgrading to get two or three improvements you like accompanied by about twenty you'll never use. I sometimes feel like I've got a hook in my mouth and I'm going to land in the boat any minute now...

[revvy]

I first bought Live in V2. Every two or three versions I pay Ableton some cash for an upgrade for the software I use to make music. Happy to keep them going as a company while enjoying their product.

It really isn’t any deeper than that, is it? Not for me, anyway, music software is one of life’s easy things.

[jonljacobi]

I sometimes wonder if there is a roadmap of obvious simple improvements that are held back deliberately. You know, throw in a couple every time there's a full dot...

[Dionysos]

buying a new version because one was "teased" into it is a result of good marketing. and we have no one but ourselves to blame if we fall victim to it.

I think it's totally fine to actually blame marketing. To think that one is immune to marketing is usually delusional, so blaming others for falling for it is misguided. Even you're using the word "victim" for a good reason.

[JamminFool]

haha, of course no one is immune to marketing. it is too closely linked to our own desires.

and i'm not blaming anyone for falling for it. i'm just pointing out that, in the end, no one is holding a gun to your head.

[chk071]

In the end, I upgrade to Studio One 6.5 from 4.6 simply because I thought it was time, after 6 years of using 4.6, and, because the configurability of various parts of the user interface was attractive to me, but, surely not because of the marketing.

No one is immune to marketing, yes, but, the kind of marketing they do, I'm totally immune to that.

[Uncle E]

Good is the enemy of great but greater is also the enemy of great. Live 10 is great as it is. If the added features don't make a drastic difference, don't change. Small workflow improvements isn't enough.

With that said, it sounds like you're already entrenched with 12 and have gotten your head around it. I say just stick with it and remember this lesson for future versions.

[Vocalpoint Studios]

I sometimes wonder if there is a roadmap of obvious simple improvements that are held back deliberately. You know, throw in a couple every time there's a full dot...

Of course there is. Espeically with say - my DAW - Studio One.

And what appears to be "simple" to the user - may not be on the coding bench.

When a new S1 "major" cadence begins (like 6.x.x) - the stuff that appears in that release is easily a year old interally and they are well on their way to the next one. Any major software DEV team will have sketched out at least two more major versions while the current one is on the street.

I do love the Presonus method - as everything they do (and how they do it) be it obvious (or not obvious) has function, form and fit. I do not think I have ever seen anything appear in any S1 release that looks "bolted" on with staples and duct tape.

It's always elegant, polished and "ready". Their recent additon of Dolby Atmos in 6.5 comes to mind. While I will not need that right now - the way they did it was brilliant for those that need it.

The best part of the Presonus delivery for me are the discovery of all the cool, useful "quality of life" changes they toss in - without even saying anything. These little tweaks and improvements are sometimes better than the advertised "big" features - dependant on workflow of course.

VP

[Dalle]

No, I like new features and Live 12 doesn’t feel any more cluttered than previous versions. A little cleaner visually actually.

That's what makes the world go around, but there's absolutely more stuff in view (definitely in the piano roll which is what really bugs me) so I'm not really seeing how you get there.

I'm glad it makes you feel that way, but it wouldn't kill them to allow user to hide what they don't want or need.

Looks pretty clean to me

[jens]

I don't necessarily disagree with the point that you can implement features in a non obtrusive way, but, the features are still there. Just as an example: Even the Artist version of Cubase would come with a lot of features I will never need.

Lol... that's like complaining about a car having more than one gear because that's all you use - and know how to use - anyway... it says a lot about yourself and nothing at all about the product you attempt to criticize.

[chk071]

I don't necessarily disagree with the point that you can implement features in a non obtrusive way, but, the features are still there. Just as an example: Even the Artist version of Cubase would come with a lot of features I will never need.

Lol... that's like complaining about a car having more than one gear because that's all you use - and know how to use - anyway... it says a lot about yourself and nothing at all about the product you attempt to criticize.

Really, you should go and catch some fresh air, if that's what you think is a useful addition to this discussion.