Developers: Why are your VCO emulations so bright?

VST, AU, AAX, CLAP, etc. Plugin Virtual Instruments Discussion
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

One thing I've always noticed about emulations, is that pretty much across the board, their VCOs just sound so much brighter than any actual VCO I've encountered. I no longer have anything actually vintage, but I do have a Studio Electronics ATC-X that's got Moog clone VCOs on board, and they pretty much attribute the same kind of roll off as other hardware VCO based synths that I own. If you look at them in a spectrum analyzer, the software will have this perfect straight line of diminishing partials, but that doesn't ever seem to be the case with actual VCOs. Why? Is it computationally expensive to model the output of a VCO?
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

Post

I have the opposite question for Arturia.

Post

Echoes in the Attic wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 4:29 pm I have the opposite question for Arturia.
Prophet 5 V's got a curve that's very similar to my Prophet 6. Are you talking about their old plugins? That's probably due to them trying to avoid obvious aliasing.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

Post

BTW, looking at Diva, it does seem to get this right. No wonder it's still considered one of the best after all this time.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

Post

zerocrossing wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 5:19 pm
Echoes in the Attic wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 4:29 pm I have the opposite question for Arturia.
Prophet 5 V's got a curve that's very similar to my Prophet 6. Are you talking about their old plugins? That's probably due to them trying to avoid obvious aliasing.
Some old, some new. Prophet and moog are fine. MS-20 oscs too dull (but great filters), same with many others like cs-80 and synclavier.

Post

Probably the same reason why virtually no vintage outboard emus model the boxtone topend rolloff of such devices: a lot of people like bright. I remember Arturia actually modelled that on their 1776 for once and immediately there were people complaining that it's "too dark" and "unuseable".

Post

dubguy99 wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:55 am Probably the same reason why virtually no vintage outboard emus model the boxtone topend rolloff of such devices: a lot of people like bright.
You're probably right. I never was a fan of overly bright. It often resembles harsh.

Post

I would say most VCO emulations are based on single-cycle waveforms which fall more on the side of perfect or ideal rather than real. In other words, they're exact digital numbers and not variations in volts, which will be different each cycle. Now some emulations claim to be circuit modeled (such as Diva). Whether that's the entire synth or just the filter, I do not know.

I'm not a dev, just my guess work.
<List your stupid gear here>

Post

double post
Last edited by gentleclockdivider on Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

Post

delete post
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

Post

egbert101 wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2024 4:25 am I would say most VCO emulations are based on single-cycle waveforms which fall more on the side of perfect or ideal rather than real. In other words, they're exact digital numbers and not variations in volts, which will be different each cycle. Now some emulations claim to be circuit modeled (such as Diva). Whether that's the entire synth or just the filter, I do not know.

I'm not a dev, just my guess work.
I don’t have any true vintage synthesizers, but the oscillators in my ATC-X are reportedly clones of the Model D design. They’re definitely not continuously changing in any way that is perceptible. The two oscillators are definitely never perfectly tuned to each other, so you get phasing even if you don’t retune them. I do see some warble in harmonics of my Uno Synth Pro X, though. If you ask me, the Studio Electronics sounds a lot more of what I think of as “vintage.” Not that I don’t think the Uno sounds great, just different.

What I think is more effective in mimicking a vintage polyphonic synthesizer is making sure each voice is slightly different. That’s not the sound of the oscillator as much as it’s the difference between voice cards. That’s a different can of worms.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

Post

VCO emulators are bright because when we get older we are loosing our hearing in the upper registers so they try to compensate that for the old timers here
aliasing plugin owner
:?

Post

zerocrossing wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 5:29 pm BTW, looking at Diva, it does seem to get this right. No wonder it's still considered one of the best after all this time.
What is your take on Repro? I always find it brighter than my P5, but that I run through preamp, so it’s not a fair comparison.

I find myself turning highs down on everything as I get order. High frequencies are just irritating, not pleasant. When I was younger I was doing the complete opposite. I never know if my taste got better or if I am just getting def

Post

audiouser720 wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 3:07 pm
zerocrossing wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 5:29 pm BTW, looking at Diva, it does seem to get this right. No wonder it's still considered one of the best after all this time.
What is your take on Repro? I always find it brighter than my P5, but that I run through preamp, so it’s not a fair comparison.

I find myself turning highs down on everything as I get order. High frequencies are just irritating, not pleasant. When I was younger I was doing the complete opposite. I never know if my taste got better or if I am just getting def
Make sure you are comparing apples to apples. Repro has a different cutoff range. Try tuning the filters to an identical note while in full resonance. Then see if what you think of the highs.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

Post

zerocrossing wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:18 pm
audiouser720 wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 3:07 pm
zerocrossing wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 5:29 pm BTW, looking at Diva, it does seem to get this right. No wonder it's still considered one of the best after all this time.
What is your take on Repro? I always find it brighter than my P5, but that I run through preamp, so it’s not a fair comparison.

I find myself turning highs down on everything as I get order. High frequencies are just irritating, not pleasant. When I was younger I was doing the complete opposite. I never know if my taste got better or if I am just getting def
Make sure you are comparing apples to apples. Repro has a different cutoff range. Try tuning the filters to an identical note while in full resonance. Then see if what you think of the highs.
You would think a Prophet5 emulation is a Prophet5 emulation (why calibrate different cutoff range). May be green apples to red apples…

It still sounds much brighter to be fair. So you must be right, vsts are brighter, generally speaking

Return to “Instruments”