Do Linux users tend to be somewhat paranoid?

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FrettedSynth wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 11:07 am Seems many tried Linux in the past and believe that it is still the same? Many believe there is not a good stream of new software it will run?

Installed Zebralette3 beta yesterday (Linux native). Runs great, really need to post a Thank You to uhe. What a one osc synth, looking very much forward to Z3.

BTW Silly question? How did this thread end up in instruments?
I guess it was my fault. I should have known it that this kind of discussion makes no sense. Sorry :)

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I use Linux with i3 (window manager) when I can but not yet for music since I don't want to attempt all the various windows installers via wine. For general use/programming/productivity I find a tiling window manager much more efficient to use than windows due to the automatic window organization and lightening fast multiple desktop switching. Also, switching between games and browser windows is instant instead of something that gives my PC seizures like on windows. Since Linux is much less prone to always-on background processes like Adobe updates and the like, it's less prone to bloatware, and phantom slowdown
Last edited by wilkins_micawber on Fri Feb 23, 2024 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Tiles wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:57 am Well, start Kontakt. Here is where the limitation already starts. Kontakt is the most used sampler.
I do not care about popularity. I have listed the Windows VST I use with Bitwig Linux in a previous comment here. If I want sample based stuff I use IK Multimedia Sample Tank. As I've commented, I have enough synths and audio FX, and Bitwig, to keep me learning about synths, mix and mastering for the rest of my life. Not to mention all the u-he Linux native synths I also use.
Tiles wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:57 am And it is just one example. To continue, there is rarely a guitar vst or amp solution natively available at Linux. Last time i had a look popular tools like Ozone didn't work at Linux neither, and so on. I repeat, i could not work at Linux since my software is missing.
Same with Ozone. I don't care. I have MGuitarArchitech and other Melda plugins for guitar/bass, amongst their 117 plugins, and knowing how to use these is plenty enough.

Since a goal has to be tagged to all this, I do not consider that Ozone or Kontakt will make me sell better the music I make. The game is at another level.
Tiles wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:57 am I for myself work with the software. The OS does not make sound, that's the job of the vst. The OS does not record music, that's the job of the DAW. So i have a look what software is available. And then i have a second look at which OS this software works. I don't look that the car fits to the wheels so to speak, but have a look which wheels are then needed at the car that i want. The OS underneath is just the wheels. Not the vehicle.
I have stopped being driven by the VST market. I spent perhaps around $5000 on plugins and soundsets and that's enough. Now I have to LEARN and USE the tools creatively. Not being poked by market offerings, by popularity of synths ("oh maybe I should get PhasePlant it's so popular everyone's talking about it" - now way !)
Tiles wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:57 am The meaning of best is that i get the most out of my setup. Performancewise, Featurewise, Moneywise. And that's where Linux is always the weakest solution. Especially moneywise as odd as it sounds. Yes, Linux is free. But unbelievable expensive. You pay it with an enourmous time effort that you spend for things that you can better spend at making music. You pay with limitations that you do not have at Windows or Mac. You can just use a small fraction of what is available. You pay with a small community in a bubble. With all its negative effects. Where usually using Linux is much more important than making music, or graphics, or games, or ...
There's some initial setup, as with all other serious DAW/audio work setups of any OS. Once it's done, it's DONE. I do not change distro each month, or even each year, or even each 2 years.

'The small fraction of what is available' I al;ready listed in a previous comment. Tell me how all Melda, all Tone2, all Voxengo VSTs constitutes a limitation ? I'm curious.
Tiles wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:57 am And what do you mean with company i work for? All i did here is to try to explain why the current situation, that musicians simply uses Windows and Mac instead of Linux, is how it is. The facts.
Since there's no company involvement you are then free of such constraints.
Tiles wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:57 am What i am not interested in is a Linux versus Windows discussion. First, this completely leaves out Mac, which is also a valid and often used solution. Especially at stage. And second since it is not a either or for me. But an and. I use both, Linux and Windows. But both for where they are good at.
Well, you are putting forth a 'Linux is not that good' stance, so let me doubt a bit about the lack of interest :)

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Tiles wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 11:17 am
FrettedSynth wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 11:07 am Seems many tried Linux in the past and believe that it is still the same? Many believe there is not a good stream of new software it will run?

Installed Zebralette3 beta yesterday (Linux native). Runs great, really need to post a Thank You to uhe. What a one osc synth, looking very much forward to Z3.

BTW Silly question? How did this thread end up in instruments?
I guess it was my fault. I should have known it that this kind of discussion makes no sense. Sorry :)
Maybe there should be a Linux section on KVR...

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Tiles wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 6:23 am
But for me it has been the other way around with lower latency on Linux than on Windows.
Keep my sample rate at 48khz buffer at 64 samples = about 8ms.
Yeah, i heard about this miracle values too. Have i mentioned that i use both, Linux and Windows, and that i can really compare? :)
Don't even try to make jokes with an old man. I am tech savy ;)
And yet again this is where I say "I don't understand" I am by far not the smartest most computer savy dude. And yet most all my Windows software runs great, again just lucky I guess.
This is more than luck. Just try Native Access. It's one of the most used sampler solutions out there :)

All your Windows software is obviously much smaller than all Windows software. Have a look at WINE. It gives you a good idea what you miss at Linux. And even here, just a fraction works. Everything below Gold is usually unuseable. And even Gold is flawed, since there is Platinum. So it must have a flaw when it is not Platinum.
And yet to me it sounds the other way around, those who say its impossible to use Linux because they could not make it work.
I did never say it is impossible. I just say it is the worst solution that you can use. Like using a stone to hammer a nail into a wall. It most obviously works. But i may bet you are better suited to use a hammer for it.

I told you already that my needed software simply does not run at Linux. And that was it already with your master plan to convince me how great Linux is for music. Even without all my other background informations :)
As I said in an early post "use what works best for you"
Same here :)

But yet you ignore the fact that 99.99% of all musicians uses Windows or Mac. Just look at this board, and how much Linux users you find here, compared to Windows and Mac users. All i try here is to explain you the why. Since you struggle to understand.
There is no struggling to understand. What you are, is anti-Linux. You seem to think that your outdated arguments and negativity will somehow sway us to your way of thinking. What it sounds to me is that you have an axe to grind, or a grudge against linux. Maybe you're mad because you tried to use it for audio, and failed spectacularly? I don't know the reason. What I do know, is that the arguments you are using are no longer valid. You are on a thread, arguing about something that doesn't even relate to the original poster's question about if we are paranoid or not, and I have somehow allowed myself to get involved. (My mistake). Are you just trolling? There must be some reason you are here trying to put down linux. Maybe we DO have a reason to be paranoid--because there are people constantly hounding us about how Linux is no good and speaking down to us as if we haven't experienced the miraculous wonders of Windows and Apple products. I've got news for you--this isn't my first or even second or even third rodeo. I've used them all. Yes, I even did music production from my iPhone and iPad! I started in the days of DOS. I'm not some fool that doesn't know what I'm missing, I'm a grumpy old hobbyist who has done most everything if not all of it, and have the years of experience to back it up. I like Linux because this OS best reflects who I am and what I want out of a computer. If you want to contribute to the original topic, please do. If you have something useful to say, say it. If you want to come and spew trash talk and venom at linux fans, please kindly bugger off.
C/R, dongles & other intrusive copy protection equals less-control & more-hassle for consumers. Company gone-can’t authorize. Limit to # of auths. Instability-ie PACE. Forced internet auths. THE HONEST ARE HASSLED, NOT THE PIRATES.

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There! Does that fit the definition of Paranoid yet? Or maybe it's just exhaustion from constantly dealing with trolls and wet blankets. :D
C/R, dongles & other intrusive copy protection equals less-control & more-hassle for consumers. Company gone-can’t authorize. Limit to # of auths. Instability-ie PACE. Forced internet auths. THE HONEST ARE HASSLED, NOT THE PIRATES.

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FrettedSynth wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 6:42 am @Tiles - from one old man to another not a joke about the latency. I have no doubt that you ARE computer savy and all, just different results on my end.
And no I will not use software centers, C/R or any of the other copy protection that needs to phone home. Don't begrudge anyone making a living so I pay for the software I use, this is a stance I took long ago. Hell had a computer in my music room forever, none have been connected to the internet.
Missing 99% of good software is a huge stretch, might be true for you but my results are different.

Not trying to convince anyone about anything, just stated my results which are very different from yours.

Peace
You are a better man than me. I allow myself to get riled up by trolls. I like your way of responding and aspire to becoming more that way. :)
C/R, dongles & other intrusive copy protection equals less-control & more-hassle for consumers. Company gone-can’t authorize. Limit to # of auths. Instability-ie PACE. Forced internet auths. THE HONEST ARE HASSLED, NOT THE PIRATES.

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Tiles wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 11:04 am This is exactly the kind of discussion that i do not want to lead. And you put strawmen here. The so called dll hell has nothing to do and is not related in any way to the dependency hell. If even then it is the solution to the dilemma under Linux. You can run 20 year old software at Windows. Because of the DLL's. At Linux the software usually quits with new dependencies. Happened to me with Ubuntu with a point upgrade with python dependencies with my very own software that i develop. And now tell your users why your software has quit working two weeks after release ...

And now let's talk again about a so called DLL hell.
I have no way to verify although I doubt that a software written 20 years ago will run seamlessly on a Windows machine built with the latest versions of everything (except that app) today. And if you can by enabling some compatibility feature, the results might not be guaranteed.

In other news, The Verge, June 2021 :

"Windows 11 will leave millions of PCs behind, and Microsoft is struggling to explain why"

https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/29/2255 ... m-response

When you are saying that you do not want a Linux vs/ Windows type of thing, are you aware of the arguments that you yourself bring against the use of Linux for audio creation purposes ? Do you really expect that no-one will squarely take this in without any reply ?

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audiojunkie wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 11:21 am There is no struggling to understand. What you are, is anti-Linux. You seem to think that your outdated arguments and negativity will somehow sway us to your way of thinking. What it sounds to me is that you have an axe to grind, or a grudge against linux. Maybe you're mad because you tried to use it for audio, and failed spectacularly? I don't know the reason. What I do know, is that the arguments you are using are no longer valid. You are on a thread, arguing about something that doesn't even relate to the original poster's question about if we are paranoid or not, and I have somehow allowed myself to get involved. (My mistake). Are you just trolling? There must be some reason you are here trying to put down linux. Maybe we DO have a reason to be paranoid--because there are people constantly hounding us about how Linux is no good and speaking down to us as if we haven't experienced the miraculous wonders of Windows and Apple products. I've got news for you--this isn't my first or even second or even third rodeo. I've used them all. Yes, I even did music production from my iPhone and iPad! I started in the days of DOS. I'm not some fool that doesn't know what I'm missing, I'm a grumpy old hobbyist who has done most everything if not all of it, and have the years of experience to back it up. I like Linux because this OS best reflects who I am and what I want out of a computer. If you want to contribute to the original topic, please do. If you have something useful to say, say it. If you want to come and spew trash talk and venom at linux fans, please kindly bugger off.
Yep. It really looks like that.

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Tiles wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:36 am
Kypresso wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:28 am
Tiles wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 1:20 am

Even Linus thorvald knows that Linux is no good at the desktop. And he knows the reasons. He simply nails it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzl1B7nB9Kc

That video is 10 years old, if thats the level of your knowledge no wonder you dont know what you are talking about.
It is two years old, and unfortunately still absolutely valid in every single point. If even then it has become worse. I cannot count how often i have for example cursed over the glibc issue in the last years.

But thanks that you show the typical toxic Linux behaviour here. Makes me immediately stop discussing with you.
No. Again you are wrong. That's Debconf14 --held in 2014. It is irrelevant that someone posted that clip two years ago. Just because someone posted my baby picture last week doesn't mean I'm still a baby.
C/R, dongles & other intrusive copy protection equals less-control & more-hassle for consumers. Company gone-can’t authorize. Limit to # of auths. Instability-ie PACE. Forced internet auths. THE HONEST ARE HASSLED, NOT THE PIRATES.

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yup.

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The three pieces in the signature below were done in Linux, some years ago. Amongst many others. At that time I used Bitwig Linux for creation and Mixbus32C (also Linux native) for mixing.

Today one could do quite a lot by simply running Bitwig Linux and nothing else. Bitwig provides all the tools for mixing and mastering, as well as several synths and even a modular synth. And more. Then after spending a bit of time with this setup in Linux one could add extra VSTs, Windows or Linux based.

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Tiles wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:57 am
mevla wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 9:23 am
Tiles wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 1:20 am
That said, when you are happy with linux and its limited eco system and the other limits, then all is fine. You have to work with it, nobody else.
What would be a limited eco system in practical means today (eg. and not in 2014 and before) ?

The company you work for imposes limitations ?
Tiles wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 1:20 am Still, the question remains, do you want to be enthusiastic or productive. And i personally always choose the solution that gets my job done in the best possible way :)
What is the meaning of 'best' ?

When I create music I start the computer, log in, start Bitwig, then pick up a synth and from there it goes, all in Linux. The limitation is an inspirational/creative one.
Well, start Kontakt. Here is where the limitation already starts. Kontakt is the most used sampler. And it is just one example. To continue, there is rarely a guitar vst or amp solution natively available at Linux. Last time i had a look popular tools like Ozone didn't work at Linux neither, and so on. I repeat, i could not work at Linux since my software is missing.

I for myself work with the software. The OS does not make sound, that's the job of the vst. The OS does not record music, that's the job of the DAW. So i have a look what software is available. And then i have a second look at which OS this software works. I don't look that the car fits to the wheels so to speak, but have a look which wheels are then needed at the car that i want. The OS underneath is just the wheels. Not the vehicle.

The meaning of best is that i get the most out of my setup. Performancewise, Featurewise, Moneywise. And that's where Linux is always the weakest solution. Especially moneywise as odd as it sounds. Yes, Linux is free. But unbelievable expensive. You pay it with an enourmous time effort that you spend for things that you can better spend at making music. You pay with limitations that you do not have at Windows or Mac. You can just use a small fraction of what is available. You pay with a small community in a bubble. With all its negative effects. Where usually using Linux is much more important than making music, or graphics, or games, or ...

And what do you mean with company i work for? All i did here is to try to explain why the current situation, that musicians simply uses Windows and Mac instead of Linux, is how it is. The facts.

What i am not interested in is a Linux versus Windows discussion. First, this completely leaves out Mac, which is also a valid and often used solution. Especially at stage. And second since it is not a either or for me. But an and. I use both, Linux and Windows. But both for where they are good at.
"What i am not interested in is a Linux versus Windows discussion." <----Then stop spewing outdated venom. It's obvious you had a bad experience. Fine. But that's not OUR experience.
C/R, dongles & other intrusive copy protection equals less-control & more-hassle for consumers. Company gone-can’t authorize. Limit to # of auths. Instability-ie PACE. Forced internet auths. THE HONEST ARE HASSLED, NOT THE PIRATES.

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audiojunkie wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:32 pmMost linux users adhere (some more than others) to certain ideologies.
Is that why Karl Marx grew a Linux beard?
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP

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BBFG# wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:28 am The new batch of up and coming Linux users are not paranoid, they're rebellious as they give the other two the finger and push their way out of their corner they try to keep every in.
Doesn't this snooty, aggressive tone prove that linuxians are indeed paranoid? :P

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