Pigments 3.5 vs Dune 3.5

[zerocrossing]

Pigments holds together all the way up the keyboard when using filter FM, where Dune 3 starts to break and alias quite a bit on high notes.

FM is tha ability to modulate the filter with any OSC or noise as audio rate.
Dune does that in the mod matrix

How do you setup that in Pigment?

The FM between oscillators is in the oscillator section itself, and if you want to do filter FM, you have to select one of the audio engines in the filter mod slot (not all filter models have this option), so you lose keyboard tracking, but you can then just put it back using the modulation system.

Aliasing in Dune did you setup modulation as audio rate ?

Of course. Try it yourself. Take a sawtooth on oscillator 1 using the analog wave shapes and filter it with any filter. I used the 24 db transistor at half way. Then, take oscillator 2 and tune it down an octave and use it as a mod source for the filter. Play high notes.

[Jac459]

It's a surprise that Pigments is more popular, cause probably it's not.

Just look at the number of new libraries released for Pigments which is only 3 years old. Or Youtube videos, or Google trends. Pigments is all over the place.

I don't like Pigments myself and I think Dune is a far better synth DSP wise but I'm pretty sure most people prefer Pigments because of the GUI and ease of use. I mean, the sequencer in Dune or the mod matrix are abysmal in comparison. The preset browser has been improved recently but it's still nowhere nearly as polished as the one in Pigments or PhasePlant.

It's pretty clear to me that you're listening with your eyes and not your ears, or picking the one that has the presets that you like more. I own both of these and have compared them and used both of them a lot. They are on equal caliber in terms of sound quality, and by that I mean they are both excellent. That doesn't mean they are equal in all things. For instance, Pigments holds together all the way up the keyboard when using filter FM, where Dune 3 starts to break and alias quite a bit on high notes. I like Pigments' MINI filter more than Dune's 24 db transistor ladder. You can get a lot of screamy resonance out of it, and when you use the drive you can get it to distort nicely, where Dune's resonance and drive are a lot more tame. Pigments has much better and more flexible oscillator engines. One engine can already give you a 3 analog style osc setup and you still have two oscillators to work with.

Of course, Dune had a ton of great things about it. Wavetable import and editing is big to me. The dual unison engine sounds awesome and is easy to use. Lots more filter types. I could go on all day, but the idea that somehow Dune trounces Pigments in terms of sound quality is absurd. Bolderdash, I say!

Well Zerocrossing, you properly nailed it.

Thank you for saying in a clearer and more detailed way what I was having in mind.

I agree with all you said at an average of 150% to 160% .

I never really understood why Pigments was having this strange reputation of not sounding great when in fact it is clearly the presets. Every time I did my own sounds with Pigments, I was happy with the sounds, in particular in touchy parts like the unison engine, the audio rates modulations, and the filters. They are excellent, no question about it.
On the other hand, Dune 3 presets, made in majority by Kevin Schroeder are sending extremly awesome (maybe among the best in the industry to my knowledge) and present the synth better than the presets of Pigments 5 do.

[zerocrossing]

It's a surprise that Pigments is more popular, cause probably it's not.

Just look at the number of new libraries released for Pigments which is only 3 years old. Or Youtube videos, or Google trends. Pigments is all over the place.

I don't like Pigments myself and I think Dune is a far better synth DSP wise but I'm pretty sure most people prefer Pigments because of the GUI and ease of use. I mean, the sequencer in Dune or the mod matrix are abysmal in comparison. The preset browser has been improved recently but it's still nowhere nearly as polished as the one in Pigments or PhasePlant.

It's pretty clear to me that you're listening with your eyes and not your ears, or picking the one that has the presets that you like more. I own both of these and have compared them and used both of them a lot. They are on equal caliber in terms of sound quality, and by that I mean they are both excellent. That doesn't mean they are equal in all things. For instance, Pigments holds together all the way up the keyboard when using filter FM, where Dune 3 starts to break and alias quite a bit on high notes. I like Pigments' MINI filter more than Dune's 24 db transistor ladder. You can get a lot of screamy resonance out of it, and when you use the drive you can get it to distort nicely, where Dune's resonance and drive are a lot more tame. Pigments has much better and more flexible oscillator engines. One engine can already give you a 3 analog style osc setup and you still have two oscillators to work with.

Of course, Dune had a ton of great things about it. Wavetable import and editing is big to me. The dual unison engine sounds awesome and is easy to use. Lots more filter types. I could go on all day, but the idea that somehow Dune trounces Pigments in terms of sound quality is absurd. Bolderdash, I say!

Well Zerocrossing, you properly nailed it.

Thank you for saying in a clearer and more detailed way what I was having in mind.

I agree with all you said at an average of 150% to 160% .

I never really understood why Pigments was having this strange reputation of not sounding great when in fact it is clearly the presets. Every time I did my own sounds with Pigments, I was happy with the sounds, in particular in touchy parts like the unison engine, the audio rates modulations, and the filters. They are excellent, no question about it.
On the other hand, Dune 3 presets, made in majority by Kevin Schroeder are sending extremly awesome (maybe among the best in the industry to my knowledge) and present the synth better than the presets of Pigments 5 do.

I feel like I do a very comprehensive look at a plugin before I buy it, so I’m well aware of any shortcomings, and every synth has them, from freeware to the Moog One. I just call it like I see it. Dune is still one of my favorite synths, hardware or software, but Pigments is also right up there among the best. That doesn’t mean everyone has to like everything. Different instruments have different characters, features, UX, etc. Make your own mind up, but don’t poison potential customers by making crap up.

[Scoox]

No surprise that Pigments is more popular.

what are your sources for this statement or is this just your opinion?

just asking, because i put pigments up on the 'sell & buy' forum here, and... no takers (which, as with your own post, proves nothing)...

I bought my copy of Pigments on the sell & buy forum right here. I think the problem is a lot of people don't know they can buy "used" plugins. Besides, Pigments can be had for little money during one of Arturia's frequent sales.

[Jac459]

If I do a simple Google match with 2 latest versions of these synths:

"Dune 3.6' : 1.380 results
"Pigments 5" : 154,000 results.

Even if not absolutely reliable it still gives an idea....

[seafire]

You would have to ask the companies what the sales figures are. They won't tell you, so you'll never know. All pointless speculation.

Does it really matter?

[Gam456]

The FM between oscillators is in the oscillator section itself, and if you want to do filter FM, you have to select one of the audio engines in the filter mod slot (not all filter models have this option), so you lose keyboard tracking, but you can then just put it back using the modulation system.

I see. It's limited and not flexible as Dune or Spire

Of course. Try it yourself. Take a sawtooth on oscillator 1 using the analog wave shapes and filter it with any filter. I used the 24 db transistor at half way. Then, take oscillator 2 and tune it down an octave and use it as a mod source for the filter. Play high notes.

I do not have aliasing. Typically I always reset the phase and use a sine.

[Jac459]

You would have to ask the companies what the sales figures are. They won't tell you, so you'll never know. All pointless speculation.

Does it really matter?

Nothing really matters man, at the end we will all finish as ashes...

[chk071]

Of course. Try it yourself. Take a sawtooth on oscillator 1 using the analog wave shapes and filter it with any filter. I used the 24 db transistor at half way. Then, take oscillator 2 and tune it down an octave and use it as a mod source for the filter. Play high notes.

Are you sure that it isn't saturation added by the filter? People tend to confuse that with aliasing, see Massive X.

I frankly doubt that Dune aliases much. Synapse know how to code soft synths, AND Dune has some kind of filtering in the upper frequencies which should prevent aliasing (but unfortunately leads to a bit of a tinny, "dampened" sound that I always notice when I try it).

See here:

Dune 3 spectrum.jpg

[Lbdunequest]

Of course. Try it yourself. Take a sawtooth on oscillator 1 using the analog wave shapes and filter it with any filter. I used the 24 db transistor at half way. Then, take oscillator 2 and tune it down an octave and use it as a mod source for the filter. Play high notes.

Are you sure that it isn't saturation added by the filter? People tend to confuse that with aliasing, see Massive X.

Also there are quality settings in Dune 3 which differs alot in FM mode from setting to setting.

[fisherKing]

If I do a simple Google match with 2 latest versions of these synths:

"Dune 3.6' : 1.380 results
"Pigments 5" : 154,000 results.

Even if not absolutely reliable it still gives an idea....

perhaps 'dune 3' would be the search equivalent of 'pigments 5'...?? (as opposed to '3.6')...

Screenshot 2024-03-06 at 7.55.56 AM.png

[Lbdunequest]

If I do a simple Google match with 2 latest versions of these synths:

"Dune 3.6' : 1.380 results
"Pigments 5" : 154,000 results.

Even if not absolutely reliable it still gives an idea....

perhaps 'dune 3' would be the search equivalent of 'pigments 5'...?? (as opposed to '3.6')...


Screenshot 2024-03-06 at 7.55.56 AM.png

Dune 2 is still most popular synth with almost billion and a half search results

[chk071]

Or you just searched for the film.

[Lbdunequest]

Or you just searched for the film.

i thought that was quite obvious with my added emoji?

nevertheless Dune and Pigments are such names that search results can be big just because Pigments is something people search about skin pigmentation for example, Dune about the movie and books

[Jac459]

If I do a simple Google match with 2 latest versions of these synths:

"Dune 3.6' : 1.380 results
"Pigments 5" : 154,000 results.

Even if not absolutely reliable it still gives an idea....

perhaps 'dune 3' would be the search equivalent of 'pigments 5'...?? (as opposed to '3.6')...


Screenshot 2024-03-06 at 7.55.56 AM.png

That's funny you take this condescending tone to explain me.

Well, I don't know how to say it politely to you but if you don't put " " in your search, google use a 'OR' instead of a 'AND' for the search criteria.

So basically, I advise you to search Dune 3 Taylor Swift, you will get 31 millions results and you will be happy.