What is the attraction with logic ?

[machinesworking]

AUs don’t hard crash the daw with the sandboxing (like bitwig has) so you don’t really have to worry about plugins as much as other daws.

I've heard that Logic has plugin sandboxing mentioned a few times, but I've never been able to search and find any proof of it. Anyone able to point me to articles or part in the manual where it talks about it? Searching sandbox in the manual comes up short.

[ozinga]

AUs don’t hard crash the daw with the sandboxing (like bitwig has) so you don’t really have to worry about plugins as much as other daws.

I've heard that Logic has plugin sandboxing mentioned a few times, but I've never been able to search and find any proof of it. Anyone able to point me to articles or part in the manual where it talks about it? Searching sandbox in the manual comes up short.

it is implemented with version 10.7.3
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/106014

"Stability and reliability
When an Audio Units plug-in crashes while running Logic Pro on a Mac with Apple silicon, Logic Pro will continue to run, and automatically reloads the plug-in after selecting Recover from the Recover/Quit dialog."

[qtheerearranger]

yeah I mean apple just refuses to use the term sandboxing for whatever reason lol. it functions the same way as bitwig. This is what I BELIEVE broke logics ARA integration to be clear. BC of plugins running separately outside the daw ara2 doesn't work as it cant read the file from outside the daw. The real question is, is logic going to try to improve flex pitch or help develop ara3 protocol with celemony. Celemony has stated they are working closely with apple on this and our last update was about 2 years ago.. this is the life of a logic user too lol. just want to cast some rain where there is sunshine so not everyone thinks oh sandboxing wow. this is the only thing i use s1 for anymore. if i have small stuff im editing in logic its no big deal to transfer audio to melodyne manually but if its a lot of tracks or a lot of files Im going to s1 with ara. I mean flex pitch in logic is trash. Not having ara sucks but i prefer sandboxing to ara.

[apoclypse]

AUs don’t hard crash the daw with the sandboxing (like bitwig has) so you don’t really have to worry about plugins as much as other daws.

I've heard that Logic has plugin sandboxing mentioned a few times, but I've never been able to search and find any proof of it. Anyone able to point me to articles or part in the manual where it talks about it? Searching sandbox in the manual comes up short.

it is implemented with version 10.7.3
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/106014

"Stability and reliability
When an Audio Units plug-in crashes while running Logic Pro on a Mac with Apple silicon, Logic Pro will continue to run, and automatically reloads the plug-in after selecting Recover from the Recover/Quit dialog."

Apple did it before with Live 9 when they first move Logic to 64-bit. They still needed to run 32-bit plugins inside of a wrapper. That wrapper was a separate process from the DAW. If you look at AU as developer there is a lot of references to sandboxing in their dev docs. When Apple moved to Apple Silicon they moved AU hosting into a system level service. Most of the other DAWs are using the same service to support non-native AU plugins.

[machinesworking]

yeah I mean apple just refuses to use the term sandboxing for whatever reason lol. it functions the same way as bitwig. This is what I BELIEVE broke logics ARA integration to be clear. BC of plugins running separately outside the daw ara2 doesn't work as it cant read the file from outside the daw. The real question is, is logic going to try to improve flex pitch or help develop ara3 protocol with celemony. Celemony has stated they are working closely with apple on this and our last update was about 2 years ago.. this is the life of a logic user too lol. just want to cast some rain where there is sunshine so not everyone thinks oh sandboxing wow. this is the only thing i use s1 for anymore. if i have small stuff im editing in logic its no big deal to transfer audio to melodyne manually but if its a lot of tracks or a lot of files Im going to s1 with ara. I mean flex pitch in logic is trash. Not having ara sucks but i prefer sandboxing to ara.

Yeah the elephant in the room is Bitwig and it's ability to host VST in the DAW or sandboxed, so it doesn't function exactly like Bitwig, at least in terms of control, but it's probably an AU spec thing that Apple has to work out.

Apple did it before with Live 9 when they first move Logic to 64-bit. They still needed to run 32-bit plugins inside of a wrapper. That wrapper was a separate process from the DAW. If you look at AU as developer there is a lot of references to sandboxing in their dev docs. When Apple moved to Apple Silicon they moved AU hosting into a system level service. Most of the other DAWs are using the same service to support non-native AU plugins.

All that makes perfect sense, and yeah it's likely an AU issue that ARA is broken in Logic, probably why DP11 uses VST3 only for ARA hosting. Which for a lot of the users is their first time using a VST3 plugin.

I don't fully understand the logic Apple has with AU right now, It doesn't seem from the outside users perspective that AU3 is really a direct replacement, it reacts like it's a bit of a sideways move, which is in some ways a similar clusterfuck that VST3 brought.

[30pinsimms]

I have used logic for over 20 years and know it in and out so that's why I still use it. I also dabble in Bitwig, Live and FL studio. I've never completed a record with those 3, other than make loops, etc. for importing into logic, but from my experience Logic is the buggiest pile of tihs application I've ever used. BUT... that's 1000's of hours of use and many projects completed w/ Logic since 2002 vs dozens of hours just messing around with the other 3 for fun.

[phantom101]

Logic is well integrated with my mac. It has a familiar interface and has high compatibility. I'm curious about switching to new DAWs like Luna, but I'm also afraid of slowing down my productions for a long period.

[Monsieur_FyP]

Logic is well integrated with my mac. It has a familiar interface and has high compatibility.

vs

I'm curious about switching to new DAWs

A little incoherent, don't you think?

[phantom101]

Logic is well integrated with my mac. It has a familiar interface and has high compatibility.

vs

I'm curious about switching to new DAWs

A little incoherent, don't you think?

It may seem incoherent, but in reality, having been stuck in logic for many years (‘cause “I have a Mac, so I use Logic), I still have the curiosity to try something else. It's not a need, just curiosity. For the rest on Logic, apart from some slowness problems, it has always allowed me to obtain the desired result.

[Teddy66]

I came here for info on Logic, and like any well-frequented computer themed forum on the net, the discussion quickly descended into an off-topic back and forth on Mac vs PC architecture Anyway, Logic is one DAW i've not used, which is why I'm following this topic. Dabbled with Cubase, Reason & Live many years ago, then packed it all in for several years, and now I've been using Live as my main DAW again.

In the last few months I've been curious about Logic, as it's less expensive than Live Suite, so as I'm on a Mac I thought I'd fire up Garageband to at least have a minuscule taste of what Logic would be like. Of course it's nowhere near what Logic can do, but I just wanted an idea of the basic workflow. I can't download Logic as a trial as I'm running Big Sur, and conveniently (for Apple), they force you to keep up with their agenda, or get left behind, one reason I like Ableton and many other companies that provide a long history of legacy versions of their software to download if so required.

I need to update my system in the near future, which is why I'm weighing up between shelling out for Live Suite, and going back to a PC, or paying less for Logic and buying a more expensive Mac.

I've watched a few Logic tuts, so I'm aware there are many things like fundamental settings that just don't exist in GB, but after a couple days with GB I'm not understanding some basic things that, to me, should be obvious, like why the catch playhead buttons randomly turn on and off or off and on when going about using the software. A basic one, but if I can't find answers to something basic like this by Googling, it makes me think that Logic is hiding many more unintuitive quirks in its workflow. And what's up with not being able to undo once you've saved a session? That seems odd to me. Live, and lots of other creative software I use all will allow me to undo to my heart's content after saving. If I'm being thick on this one as far as DAWs go please educate me.

Having never used Logic, I'm well aware I'm just not understanding the workflow yet, and if I could, I'd willingly test drive it for a month.

I can't find specifics when this is mentioned across the net, but what are the main 'quirks' of Logic's workflow, any really unintuitive things that would normally be obvious from using other linear DAWs?

[Trensharo]

I came here for info on Logic, and like any well-frequented computer themed forum on the net, the discussion quickly descended into an off-topic back and forth on Mac vs PC architecture

Logic Pro has a 90 Day Trial.

98.6% of the time, it's PC users jumping in to bash Apple, often using price as a gauge while completely lacking in any broader view on the economics of those scenarios.

You really have to just tune that stuff out, skip past it or block the offending users if they make a habit out of it.

Considering what a producer can get done on an $879 Mac Mini... the price is not a huge factor. You will struggle to get better in the PC space, and running upgrade costs over the life of the machine is almost guaranteed to make the Mac Mini cheaper than anything that can perform on par with it - if it isn't cheaper right out of the gate.

This is particularly true given Music Production doesn't really require much for GPU grunt, which is where you really run into situations that cause the price to ramp up hilarious. Most people producing music are not Film Composers who need 32-256GB of RAM to run large templates. They can do everything on an Mx Mac with 8-16GB Unified Memory.

-----

The attraction to Logic Pro is that it is a complete solution for people who want to get an A+ Tier DAW and almost everything they need to produce music in the box in one cheap package with a very low MSRP and extremely low LTCO (no upgrade fees, thus far).

The only other DAWs that really provide anything comparable are FL Studio Producer+, which is more of a Beat Making powerhouse (but similar business model/licensing) and Reason 12, whose Sequencer and MIDI Editing can't hold a candle to Logic Pro (while having SIGNIFICANTLY higher MSRP and Upgrade costs).

That's the primary draw.

The DAW itself is good. It's mature software with a deep feature set, that has functionality optimized for all types of music production and producers. It's a true generalist. This makes it attractive to users across the entire music production market - which is something FL Studio Producer and Reason do not do as well.

Also, people just like "Buy it and forget about it" model of software purchases. They don't want to have to deal with FOMO with paid software updates, etc. and many people get into music production as a hobby before they become more serious. So, buying the cheap and complete package makes perfect sense. By the time they become more serious about it, they are not just going to change and incur more costs and an additional learning curve "just because."

-----

No one running a production machine should be updating Day One with their OS, their DAW, or anything. That scenario doesn't exist among users with a clue. That's ignorable. Even if you start off ignorant, you learn this lesson once and you don't repeat it - well, usually...

Treat your production workstation like an Enterprise Workstation, not an iMessage box.

That goes for both Windows and macOS - because both have been known to break stuff with updates. It's why the Windows Update changes in Windows 10 were so universally hated.

[Trensharo]

Logic is well integrated with my mac. It has a familiar interface and has high compatibility.

vs

I'm curious about switching to new DAWs

A little incoherent, don't you think?

That's what we mean when we say FOMO.

Even when people are happy with the choice they've made, they still can't achieve complete contentment because they're always afraid the grass may be greener.

The grass is always greener, and always more dead. It's both.

It just depends on which patch of the field you're looking at

[BONES]

I notice a few people talking about Logic's step sequencer - can someone please explain to me what the purpose of a step sequencer is in any application with a piano roll? Surely it is made completely and utterly redundant by the PR?

[kuniklo]

I notice a few people talking about Logic's step sequencer - can someone please explain to me what the purpose of a step sequencer is in any application with a piano roll? Surely it is made completely and utterly redundant by the PR?

The step sequencer does a lot of things that are hard or impossible to do in a piano roll. You can set different lengths and clock dividers for each lane, probabilities at each step, randomize any value you want etc.

[qtheerearranger]

I notice a few people talking about Logic's step sequencer - can someone please explain to me what the purpose of a step sequencer is in any application with a piano roll? Surely it is made completely and utterly redundant by the PR?

The step sequencer does a lot of things that are hard or impossible to do in a piano roll. You can set different lengths and clock dividers for each lane, probabilities at each step, randomize any value you want etc.

can also do this described above with automation in logic in which you can have it be stepped or smooth automation. can even be done with a piano roll midi track. I just find it as a really creative tool with the changes of lengths and dividers as described above.