Bye bye VST2

[Sascha Franck]

CLAP wraps to AU, VST and AAX... so no problem supporting the old dinosaurs...

Ok, fine. Then just bring it on.
But as long as there's any kind of feature loss caused by that wrapping (compared to possibly parallely developed native VST/AU versions), it likely still won't take off.

[Sascha Franck]

What a clever reply.
I see not much has changed here.

[machinesworking]

AU was developed explicitly because Apple wanted a format that forced compatibility on OS X. VST at the time being cross platform was proving to be unstable on OS 9. The little secret is VST plugin development is pretty well documented, but hosting is not. Plus it was far more likely to leave Windows code in VST at the time, meaning instant crashes. AU came with Apples plugin evaluation in Logic and DP, forcing a step that prevented at least the most serious offenders from getting loaded into your DAW.

That's all fine and dandy, but for me as a user it had exactly *zero* advances.
Besides, there was very little overlapping of OS9 and AU, so that can't exactly be the reason.

Sasha, if you had used AU and OS X back in the day, you would know that VSTs were less stable on Mac OS, that was it, period.

The advances were obvious OS9 Logic with VST to OS X Logic with AU.

None of what I stated is controversial, Emagic, and Apple at the time flatly stated that AU was developed to ensure compatibility with Mac OS, since they did not believe that Steinberg cared about compatibility with VST outside of Cubendo.

It's the VST3 fiasco from back then, VST3 is not more stable with any host outside of Cubendo.

[jens]

What a clever reply.
I see not much has changed here.

Schau, Sascha, es ist einfach so:

Deine Antwort war wirklich einfach gar nicht mal so schlau. Ich habe Sozialwissenschaften/Sozialforschung studiert und habe in Bezug auf solche Fragen vermutlich mehr vergessen, als Du jemals lernen wirst. Und hättest Du meine (inhaltlich um ein Vielfaches durchdachtere und augewogenere als Deine Reaktion darauf) Antwort nicht mal eben lapidar (und ziemlich frech) als "nonsense" abgetan, dann hättest Du Dir auch eine respektvollere Antwort verdient. Dem ist aber einfach nicht der Fall.

[Sascha Franck]

Sasha, if you had used AU and OS X back in the day, you would know that VSTs were less stable on Mac OS, that was it, period.

The advances were obvious OS9 Logic with VST to OS X Logic with AU.

That's why I said there was little overlap of OS9 and AU. Because then there was OSX and VST support worked just fine.

And fwiw, I am not supporting the idea of VST becoming *the* main format at all. But AU is no alternative, either, because it only exists on one platform.

As said, I'd be more than happy for CLAP to take off as much as it gets. I still just don't see this happening any day soon.

[pdxindy]

CLAP wraps to AU, VST and AAX... so no problem supporting the old dinosaurs...

Ok, fine. Then just bring it on.
But as long as there's any kind of feature loss caused by that wrapping (compared to possibly parallely developed native VST/AU versions), it likely still won't take off.

CLAP has already taken off...

[MrJubbly]

I think one thing most people underestimate when looking at popularity of DAWs etc. is how many more people are interested in DAWs in the last 15 or so years compared to previously. It's absolutely skyrocketed. It's not that Logic, PT, Cubase are not popular DAWs, their user base I would bet hasn't significantly changed, (especially Logic), it's that electronic music done on a computer i.e. a "producer" is absolutely the most common musician these days, when 15 years ago it was 100% guitar and indie rock etc.

Every musician I know owns a DAW these days, I used to be the rarity and now I'm not, especially with the under 30 crowd. It's also more common than not to own Bitwig and Reaper, or Cubase and FL Studio, or Reason and Pro Tools. It's entirely common to own a modern music production DAW and a more advanced audio editing and mastering DAW. Hell hardly anyone produced entirely on Live back in the day.

That's a very good point actually.

But it has been suggested by some, that without CLAP support from Steinberg, Apple and Avid, that CLAP does not have a chance of becoming a major force in the music production world.

Therefore, if those DAWs still had a sizable base, albeit absolutely dwarfed by the much more popular userbase of the other DAWs (which likely will support CLAP), then the former DAWs' lack of support for the format, is still largely irrelevant to the format's adoption and success within those DAWs who will support CLAP.

Of course, the companies who produce/rely on their own proprietary audio plugin formats, will likely continue to do so. Meanwhile, users of other DAWs will embrace the open standard, regardless.

[Sascha Franck]

Deine Antwort war wirklich einfach gar nicht mal so schlau. Ich habe Sozialwissenschaften/Sozialforschung studiert und habe in Bezug auf solche Fragen vermutlich mehr vergessen, als Du jemals lernen wirst.

Merkt man nicht. Bzw. merkt man, dass du da sehr viel vergessen hast.

Du hast einfach sackdummes Zeug geplappert. Und ich nenne sackdummes Zeug sackdummes Zeug, von daher bist du mit dem "nonsense" noch gut davongekommen.

Wenn du da in die Details gehen willst, entweder auf englisch oder per PN.
Aber für mich ist die Sache hier vermutlich eh erledigt.

To everybody else: Sorry for the german blurb.

[Sascha Franck]

CLAP has already taken off...

So, which of the big dudes in the plugin business is releasing their suites in CLAP format?

[jens]

Merkt man nicht. Bzw. merkt man, dass du da sehr viel vergessen hast.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger-Effekt

[machinesworking]

But you should be aware that your own experiences are merely anecdotal since it depends a lot on yourself and the company you chose.

That's nonsense. In case I am called as a sub and each and everyone out of the band is using Logic, it's got exactly nothing to do with me being a Logic user.

Nah he's right. I Live in Seattle, and Live is by far the most common DAW people use, followed by Reaper then Logic and Pro Tools. I've met one FL Studio user. I'm not going to make an assumption about the rest of the planet based on my location in one of the major tech areas of the USA, (and spawning ground for Grunge, several Indie Rock bands etc.) because it would not be accurate.

[sQeetz]

I suppose as well, a lot of those people have been on 'production' or 'music technology' courses, rather than muddling through being self-taught, and are likely to continue using whatever they used at their particular institution, so the baton is passed, so to speak. That could be a factor.

What's wrong with that?
Even being self-taught, you could have incidentally taught yourself into the stuff other people also have?

[sQeetz]

... and Live is by far the most common DAW people use, followed by ...

80% (guesstimate...) of tutorial or introduction or anything about plugins... people are using Live. I don't mind.

[MrJubbly]

CLAP has already taken off...

So, which of the big dudes in the plugin business is releasing their suites in CLAP format?

How about FabFilter and u-he (who will clearly release all their plugins in CLAP).

[Sascha Franck]

Edit: Not worth it, not even remotely.