TW12: Guitar gets recorded with 2 to 9 seconds of latency!

[Ally007]

I've never encountered anything like this, until today. I'm finding that when recording guitar, the signal gets recorded a few seconds late. It sounds fine while monitoring the recording session. But the recorded guitar just shows up in Tracktion Waveform 2 to 9 seconds to the right of where it should be. I was using putting the guitar throu a multi-effects pedal (Sonicake Matribox) but the problem also occurs when I plug the guitar directly into my audio interface (Behringer UMC202HD). Can anyone guess what's going on?

[Peter Widdicombe]

Do you get the same using it's USB direct input, as well as guitar -> pedal -> audio input?

[Ally007]

Do you get the same using it's USB direct input, as well as guitar -> pedal -> audio input?

Thanks for the suggestion, Peter. If I unplug my UMC202HD audio interface, the Sonicake Matribox pedal then becomes the ASIO audio device detected by TW, thanks to its USB connection. Is that what you meant? When I record in that way, the problem still occurs, exactly the same: the recorded audio clip shows up in TW, to the right of where it should be, i.e., delayed by 2 to 6 seconds.

The problem also occurs if I plug the guitar directly into the audio interface (without any pedals).

I tried reducing Waveform's buffer setting to the minimum (64 samples, 1.5ms). Then, the delay when recording was reduced from about 6 seconds to about 2 seconds, but the next time I tried it, the latency was about 4 seconds, so it seems that reducing the buffer setting had no effect.

I tried starting a new TW project, with no plugins loaded. The result was the same.

The latency issue does not occur when using a different DAW, such as Cakewalk or Reaper.

[Peter Widdicombe]

Which ASIO are you using? I also have a Behringer UCA222 but use the generic ASIO4all and don't have a similar issue. Have you checked the ASIO contol panel to see if there is a "latency compensation" setting that might have inadvertently been set to non-zero?

By the way, when recording, are you listening to guitar through waveform's output, or through direct monitoring (i.e. if you turn down the waveform volume, do you still hear the guitar, meaning you're using local monitoring? That is better but hides potential delays). Normally you hear or feel a delay that way, but it's in the order of a small fraction of a second.

Also while observing the input level graph in the properties window at the bottom, do you see the delay while playing or even touching the strings? It should not be visible normally, but a 4-seccond delay would definitely be apparent. This would let you see if there is a delay on INPUT.

Also in the audio clip properties, do you see the offset just under name, start, end, length? It should normally be 0.

[Ally007]

Which ASIO are you using? I also have a Behringer UCA222 but use the generic ASIO4all and don't have a similar issue. Have you checked the ASIO contol panel to see if there is a "latency compensation" setting that might have inadvertently been set to non-zero?

By the way, when recording, are you listening to guitar through waveform's output, or through direct monitoring (i.e. if you turn down the waveform volume, do you still hear the guitar, meaning you're using local monitoring? That is better but hides potential delays). Normally you hear or feel a delay that way, but it's in the order of a small fraction of a second.

Also while observing the input level graph in the properties window at the bottom, do you see the delay while playing or even touching the strings? It should not be visible normally, but a 4-seccond delay would definitely be apparent. This would let you see if there is a delay on INPUT.

Also in the audio clip properties, do you see the offset just under name, start, end, length? It should normally be 0.

Thanks, Peter. I checked all these things and nothing seems out of order. I was using UMC ASIO to reflect my UMC interface, as I always have, but I tried ASIO4All and there was no change. No latency compensation is in place. I've listened via direct monitoring and also waveform's output and I don't hear any delay in the signal, when striking a guitar string etc.In Audio clip properties, offset is set as 0, 0, 000 on all clips.

I don't see an input level graph (that you mentioned) anywhere in the properties window. If I click the left of the track, where it shows the input selected, with record enabled, I then see a long, hotizontal dB level meter at the bottom of the central properties panel. Is that what you meant? No delay is apparent there.

[Peter Widdicombe]

Yeah, sorry, it was meters and not a graph. So it looks like input signal is coming in "good" but for some reason is showing up delayed on the actual recorded clip?

On audio input devices, there is a "time adjust" and an auto-detect button - see it in the properties panel when you click on an input device on the left. Default it will be 0, but you can offset there if there are delays in the audio path, by a + or - amount. if this number is non-zero, presumably it drops that number as a delay or advance of each audio clip recorded.

There is also an "auto-detect" feature, which does it more precisely, where you feed the output from waveform back into the input device; preferably via audio cable, and it will send pulses to the output and measure/calibrate the return signal deviation per device. I don't think many actually use it; but if run by accident and that above number is "large" it might be affecting all audio recordings via the asio device(s)?

From a copy of the Waveform 11 manual... and it goes through the steps. Again, this is normally only for really short offsets, and setting manually seems to limit it to -500 to +500 milliseconds. However, if somehow you wound up with a larger number in there, it may cause the wonky timings you are seeing. Maybe just SET it to 0 even if it shows 0 ?

Calibrating Input Latency Compensation
If you use Waveform for any overdubbing, this is possibly the most important lesson in this book.
Waveform requires you to run Auto-Detect using a loopback connection on your audio interface.
Warning: This test sets up up a deliberate feedback loop. Switch your speakers off during
this test.You will be connecting an output to an input using a patch cord, so be careful.

[Ally007]

So it looks like input signal is coming in "good" but for some reason is showing up delayed on the actual recorded clip?

Yes, exactly.

Again, this is normally only for really short offsets, and setting manually seems to limit it to -500 to +500 milliseconds. However, if somehow you wound up with a larger number in there, it may cause the wonky timings you are seeing. Maybe just SET it to 0 even if it shows 0 ?

Yes, I did try that, but nothing changed.

Thanks for your additional suggestions, Peter. I don't know; it seems such a weird issue, and I can't see any record of anyone else experiencing the same problem. I can't imagine how 6 seconds of latency could occur, or what my input signal is doing during that six seconds! I haven't messed with any settings that could cause such a thing. I tried downloading a later version of TW, but the problem was still there. I could spend days trying to solve this, and still get nowhere. Meanwhile, I have music projects that I want to get done. I think I'll use Reaper for the next project, rather than spend another day sweating over this mind-bender. Meanwile, perhaps some sort of 'eureka moment' will come to the rescue.

[Watchful]

Audio interface? I wonder if there's any way to test this. I tend to be suspicious of Behringer's audio interfaces. They can be...quirky.

USB nuttiness? Are you connected directly to the interface, or are using a USB device that could use a restart?

[Ally007]

Audio interface? I wonder if there's any way to test this. I tend to be suspicious of Behringer's audio interfaces. They can be...quirky.

USB nuttiness? Are you connected directly to the interface, or are using a USB device that could use a restart?

Thanks, @Watchful. I've tried the following, in the following order:

1) restarted the audio interface (UMC202HD): No improvement.
2) tried a brand new USB cable for the UMC202HD: No improvement.
3) tried by-passing the UMC202HD, by using Matribox FX unit as the audio interface: No improvement.
4) tried plugging guitar directly into the UMC202 (by-passing the Matribox): No improvement

So, the UMC202HD and the Matribox are no longer suspects. And since the issue doesn't happen with the three other DAWS I have (Reaper, Cakewalk, Audacity), It seems the issue is exclusively with Trackton Waveform.

[dellboy]

Audio interface? I wonder if there's any way to test this. I tend to be suspicious of Behringer's audio interfaces. They can be...quirky.

USB nuttiness? Are you connected directly to the interface, or are using a USB device that could use a restart?

Thanks, Peter. I've tried the following:

1) restarted the audio interface (UMC202HD): No improvement.
2) tried a brand new USB cable for the UMC202HD: No improvement.
3) tried by-passing the UMC202HD, by using Matribox FX unit as the audio interface: No improvement.
4) tried plugging guitar directly into the UMC202 (by-passing the Matribox): No improvement

So, the UMC202HD and the Matribox are no longer suspects. And since the issue doesn't happen with the three other DAWS I have (Reaper, Cakewalk, Audacity), I'm left concluding that the issue is exclusively with Trackton Waveform.

Its not Waveform that is the problem. I have just recorded my electric guitar in Waveform 13 using a Behringer UMC204 HD with low latency (32 samples (0.7ms) with no problems. I notice no discernable latency and no crackles. Have you downloaded the latest driver for your audio interface and installed it? And reinstall it again anyway even if a new one is not available.

[Ally007]

Have you downloaded the latest driver for your audio interface and installed it? And reinstall it anyway even if a new one is not available.

Yes. No improvement. I've eliminated the audio interface as a suspect anyway, as I pointed out in my previous message that you quoted.

[dellboy]

Have you downloaded the latest driver for your audio interface and installed it? And reinstall it anyway even if a new one is not available.

Yes. No improvement. I've eliminated the audio interface as a suspect, anyway, as pointed out in my previous message . Like you, I never had a problem like this before (until a couple of days ago).

To test,I have just made a new song in Waveform13. I then recorded a four bar loop using my guitar,looped it,and pulled it out for 70 bars,and it loops perfectly. No latency problems that I can discern.

[Ally007]

To test,I have just made a new song in Waveform13. I then recorded a four bar loop using my guitar,looped it,and pulled it out for 70 bars,and it loops perfectly. No latency problems that I can discern.

It was the same for me, until 2 days ago.

[dellboy]

To test,I have just made a new song in Waveform13. I then recorded a four bar loop using my guitar,looped it,and pulled it out for 70 bars,and it loops perfectly. No latency problems that I can discern.

It was the same for me, until 2 days ago.

Sounds like your version of Waveform has somehow become corrupted and a complete clean reinstall is your last option.

[Ally007]

Update: The issue has stopped! I'm not sure exactly what I did that stopped it. It ceased after I had switched between two different audio interfaces, a couple of times, and switched between different ASIO drivers (ASIO4ALL and UMC ASIO) a couple of times and fresh started my PC a couple of times. Now I have exactly the same setup as before (UMC202HD interface and UMC ASIO driver) but the recording latency is no more (touch wood). Phew - I almost became consigned to the Reaper learning curve! Thanks again, to those who offered suggestions.