I bought too many soft synths

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talking of jarre, I stumbled across this interview while trying to work out if he got into the synclavier itself at some point:
I want to continue using sampling, but only to create sounds, and to get away, generally speaking, from all manufactured sounds. These are traps, because the music industry - and the Japanese manufacturers in particular - has replaced the organ with new products that are not, in my opinion, so much synthesizers as just preset electronic instruments. They were manufactured in factories, and the result of this is that we are listening to the same sounds almost everywhere in the world. I would like to escape from this, and so for my next project I'm being really careful in my selection of the instruments that I want to work with: instruments like the Elka Synthex synthesizers, the old Memory Moog, the Akai S1000, the Roland D50, an old matrix sequencer that Michel Geiss manufactured, and the Akai MPC60, which I like a lot as a drum machine.
https://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/the- ... jarre/5812

so I think it's fair to say jean-michel was not a fan of sticking with ye old 2-osc-into-a-filter structure just because he made two albums in the 70s that revolve around analogue synths.

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Jac459 wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 7:06 pmIf you can't see the difference between technologies of synths it is your own issue and don't concern me.
Any idiot can see the difference, it's just that it doesn't matter. Surely you can see past the tools to the actual point of using them?
I can guarantee you that if you do a blind test to KVR members and shows presets of subtractive versus granular synths, they will instantly recognise.
Just as in the 1980s anyone would be able to tell the difference between a DW8000 and a Mirage. It's not a compelling argument.
To some extent with FM you could more of less mimic some sounds of wavetable synthesis but here again it is pretty easy to have wavetable sounds unmatchable for FM.
And yet I have never heard such a sound. All anyone seems to use wavetables for is to mimic FM or PWM or something else an analogue subtractive can do.
JM Jarre albums like Oxygen are still true masterpiece, but there is absolutely no doubt that oxygen would have sounded totally differently if made with the capacity of today.
Unlike you, Jean-Michel Jarre is an eager innovation lover who is always going to try new synthesis approach and try to push boundaries.
And yet his more recent releases don't really sound that much different to his classic stuff.
He is at the opposite of the spectrum compare to you. You are mostly doing EBM (electronic body music) which is a genre rooted in the 80s. For sure you don't need modern synthesis!
So you've never listened to anything of ours, as you clearly have no clue as to what we do. We're not Spetsnaz, we do our own thing. It's the simplest thing in the world to check your facts, to avoid looking like a fool, yet you clearly didn't bother.
What is beyond me is that you are not able to understand that not everybody has the same use case than you.
What I find amazing is that you think we don't. It's only the ridiculous genrefication of dance music that makes you think like that. It's absurd and it does my head in that you can't see it. I've been doing this for a very long time, I think I have a whole lot more perspective than you do, looking out from your tiny, little bubble.
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.

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machinesworking wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 8:39 pmDepeche Mode pretty famously had a member whose job besides playing synth in the band was to program all the sounds.
No, that's not the case at all. I saw a TV interview with Martin Gore in 2002 or so where he talked about hiring two guys to come in and program some sounds as a way to get himself off his arse and start writing. I found it interesting at the time because I've always thought that Depeche Mode's synth sounds were mostly really f**king awful. They are just about the last electronic act I'd cite to make your point.
Yes, song ideas are important, but I can't ignore the importance of good synth sounds in electronic music in general.
Absolutely but you don't need a synth like Phaseplant to manage that. In fact, Phaseplant might be a poor choice, there are much better sounding synths around.
VOODOO U wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 9:35 pmRight. Which is why Metallica plays banjos.
Interesting choice. In the 90s, Die Krupps wanted to show that Metallica wrote such great songs that they'd work with any instrumentation, so they made this EP -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvvljYr ... wCz8QYn-Zp

Plus, of course, they've toured with a full symphony orchestra, so that kind of instrumentation works for their songs, too. It's a great example to prove my point, so thanks for bringing them up.
Vangelis could've scored Blade Runner with a moog sound and it would've been just as impactful.
You don't serious believe otherwise, surely? They are just synths, you could make those sounds with any f**king thing.
And what successful artists pay others to patch their synths sounds?
Depeche Mode, Hans Zimmer, those kinds of successful artists.
Jac459 wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 11:33 pm2 - Other people already agree with the point I am trying to defend... Stupid me.
So it feels better not to be the only idiot, does it? Or is validation more important than learning?
Jac459 wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 12:21 amThe transformation of sound is something modern genre use and abuse (I am looking at you Dubstep :-P). And it was just not existing before.
That's not to say it wasn't possible, it was just that nobody found a use for it until then. I'd also suggest Dubstep is far more about advances in production than in synths.
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.

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BONES wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 4:10 am And yet I have never heard such a sound.
I think that it's your problem lol.

Go out, listen to some recent music, open your mind.

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BONES wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 5:26 am
Jac459 wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 11:33 pm2 - Other people already agree with the point I am trying to defend... Stupid me.
So it feels better not to be the only idiot, does it? Or is validation more important than learning?
Well, it is an Internet forum, so it is safe to say that most of us don't give a shit about what any of us is saying... That's why we all mostly manage to stay polite and composed.
You are the one eructing like a drunk after too many beers, yelling at clouds.

And argument could be done that what makes you an "idiot" in this forum are not your opinions but the way you are (un)able to defend them calmly and construct a reasoning...

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BONES wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 5:26 am
machinesworking wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 8:39 pmDepeche Mode pretty famously had a member whose job besides playing synth in the band was to program all the sounds.
No, that's not the case at all. I saw a TV interview with Martin Gore in 2002 or so where he talked about hiring two guys to come in and program some sounds as a way to get himself off his arse and start writing. I found it interesting at the time because I've always thought that Depeche Mode's synth sounds were mostly really f**king awful. They are just about the last electronic act I'd cite to make your point.
Alan Wilder did most of their synth sounds before he left in the 90's I really haven't paid much attention to them past Violator, and I would completely disagree with you about DM with Alan Wilder in the band. Their synth sounds were always texturally fantastic.

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machinesworking wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 12:02 am Huge hole in this thought, Vangelis used the factory patches on the Yamaha CS-80 almost exclusively for Blade Runner.
Not sure if that's actual fact but let's go with it. There are other examples to make my point for f**ks sake.


Obviously the CS-80 is an amazing synth, but you can't really argue that he spent any time at all on programming, or that it's not the ideas he had on playing the patches VS his deep knowledge of programming the CS-80.
Look, bottom line, synths have knobs, faders and routing possibilities and i do find messing with it is the purpose of synthesis regardless if some famous artists do or don't do it.
Otherwise buy a synth with nothing but a volume knob and buttons to change presets.
BONEHEAD wrote:It's a great example to prove my point, so thanks for bringing them up
Right. Because Metallica got big playing anything other than metal with distorted guitars.
Any subsequent output from Metallica experimenting out of the box was made possible by their success as a metal band playing specific tools that allowed for that metal sound.
You don't serious believe otherwise, surely? They are just synths, you could make those sounds with any f**king thing.
Prove me wrong. Go ahead and make that classic Vangelis score in Blade Runner using a Moog.

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I want to highlight something here, Bones isn't really any different than the rest of us in most ways, it's the loaded terms that get people.

I watch people mock others choices of synths, DAWs etc. all the time here people will "politely" disembowel each others choices, but because it's not put like, "Any idiot can see the difference," we take it somehow less personally. My DAW is wildly unpopular here, any thread on it has a few autistic types OCD posting about their experience with the demo, yet somehow that passes the stink test here, but Bones loading his opinions with cagey subtle begging the question ad hominums is verboten.

I get that it can be frustrating, but I've rarely had any real issue with Bones because there's one thing that's 100% true no matter how it's framed, his opinions on things are just that, opinions. I don't use or haven't even paid attention to Phase Plant, but if I liked it, Bones thinking it sucks would have zero impact. That's how opinions work to me, I determine whether I take them in or dismiss it as blow hard nonsense.

It's not a superpower, but it's why I've never had to block any user on any forum ever. I don't need to convince Bones or anyone of the merits of the Moog ladder filter, it doesn't hurt my feelings that he likes other filters better, and it doesn't prevent me from using Moogs. :shrug:

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VOODOO U wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 8:55 am
machinesworking wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 12:02 am Huge hole in this thought, Vangelis used the factory patches on the Yamaha CS-80 almost exclusively for Blade Runner.
Not sure if that's actual fact but let's go with it. There are other examples to make my point for f**ks sake.
The argument I thought started with the idea that preset patches or paying someone else to make patches was common for successful musicians, and it is. Vangelis definitly used the factory patches for the score of Blade Runner.





You don't serious believe otherwise, surely? They are just synths, you could make those sounds with any f**king thing.
Prove me wrong. Go ahead and make that classic Vangelis score in Blade Runner using a Moog.
I agree with you here, Vangelis used the hell out of the unique things with the CS-80, the ribbon controller, sub bass, and the aftertouch etc.

I think this conversation has gotten a little off track for sure. You can argue that some people treat instruments like the CS-80 closer to the way someone would use a cello, but in both cases someone capable of exploiting that instrument to it's fullest is the most important element, not the quality of the cello.

It's not a far fetched idea that the sound of the instrument, your knowledge of how to use that instrument, whether it's patching sounds, playing it at a professional level, and exploiting it's unique features, or technical and creative use of the instrument after it's been setup, I mean all those things can contribute to the final product. I do not know how anyone could think otherwise? The Blade Runner soundtrack was not at all compromised by the factory patches, and to a degree that's because those patches are now etched into our psyche as Blade Runner sounds.

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machinesworking wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 8:57 am I want to highlight something here, Bones isn't really any different than the rest of us in most ways, it's the loaded terms that get people.

I watch people mock others choices of synths, DAWs etc. all the time here people will "politely" disembowel each others choices, but because it's not put like, "Any idiot can see the difference," we take it somehow less personally. My DAW is wildly unpopular here, any thread on it has a few autistic types OCD posting about their experience with the demo, yet somehow that passes the stink test here, but Bones loading his opinions with cagey subtle begging the question ad hominums is verboten.

I get that it can be frustrating, but I've rarely had any real issue with Bones because there's one thing that's 100% true no matter how it's framed, his opinions on things are just that, opinions. I don't use or haven't even paid attention to Phase Plant, but if I liked it, Bones thinking it sucks would have zero impact. That's how opinions work to me, I determine whether I take them in or dismiss it as blow hard nonsense.

It's not a superpower, but it's why I've never had to block any user on any forum ever. I don't need to convince Bones or anyone of the merits of the Moog ladder filter, it doesn't hurt my feelings that he likes other filters better, and it doesn't prevent me from using Moogs. :shrug:
Yes. If there’s anything to be learned from Twitter, it’s that we love to pile on people for wrong think. Best to resist that urge.

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I had previously bought too many soft synths, but having bought a new synth and sampler in the last few days which I absolutely adore, I no longer feel that way. so the key to dealing with too many synths is to buy more.

long story short: bai moar, meik moar muzik!
I lost my heart in Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu

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Though difficult at times, best to not reward attention whores who use loaded words to get attention :tu:
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machinesworking wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 9:11 am The argument I thought started with the idea that preset patches or paying someone else to make patches was common for successful musicians
Did it? I lost track. I don't care anymore. I hate everybody.
I agree with you here, Vangelis used the hell out of the unique things with the CS-80, the ribbon controller, sub bass, and the aftertouch etc.
Isn't it also how each synth is designed? You can't make a Casio sold at a convenient store sound like a Nordlead as an example.
With guitars pickups, they give a guitar a character to their sound.
I figure the components of a Moog give it that sound character that ie a Juno synth cannot get.

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machinesworking wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 8:57 am I want to highlight something here, Bones isn't really any different than the rest of us in most ways, it's the loaded terms that get people.

I watch people mock others choices of synths, DAWs etc. all the time here people will "politely" disembowel each others choices, but because it's not put like, "Any idiot can see the difference," we take it somehow less personally. My DAW is wildly unpopular here, any thread on it has a few autistic types OCD posting about their experience with the demo, yet somehow that passes the stink test here, but Bones loading his opinions with cagey subtle begging the question ad hominums is verboten.

I get that it can be frustrating, but I've rarely had any real issue with Bones because there's one thing that's 100% true no matter how it's framed, his opinions on things are just that, opinions. I don't use or haven't even paid attention to Phase Plant, but if I liked it, Bones thinking it sucks would have zero impact. That's how opinions work to me, I determine whether I take them in or dismiss it as blow hard nonsense.

It's not a superpower, but it's why I've never had to block any user on any forum ever. I don't need to convince Bones or anyone of the merits of the Moog ladder filter, it doesn't hurt my feelings that he likes other filters better, and it doesn't prevent me from using Moogs. :shrug:
Well, allow me to slightly disagree (or maybe reformulate my way) sir.

I am not very disturbed by the "name calling" of Bone.
I don't find Bone to be a mean person and I don't see him as attacking very personally like some others may do.

What really annoys me with Bone is that he is entering discussions without the willingness to discuss. I don't know if it is extreme insecurity or some more profound issue but he is not actually here to debate but to preach and convert in a very unsubtle and impolite way.

The problem is that this generally manages to kill any discussion and we end up all siding against him and loosing track of the discussion (like in this thread).

If I take this discussion, the point of Bone that we don't always need rich architectures of synths and that there are finally a wealth of expressivity in simpler synth is not 100% wrong (or 100% true) and could be interesting and enrich the discussion if it was not put in a way that upset and annoy everybody.

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Michael L wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 2:02 pm Though difficult at times, best to not reward attention whores who use loaded words to get attention :tu:
Yeah I think I am guilty 🤦

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