KVR Audio

Examigan · Post by **Examigan** » Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:30 pm

I just checked in Battery 3 and it only has 21 different samples from the DMX, and this new product has way more:
"288 authentic and unique DMX and DX sounds."

Not bad for the intro price.

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:32 pm

£20?! I was about to instabuy just cos it looks fun, but then... no multi-outs. That's nuts.

felis · Post by **felis** » Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:41 pm

beely wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:32 pm .....If you're talking about the Xpander/Matrix-12 (or Matrix 6/1000 and later), I'm not sure - they are mostly closely connected to Tom Oberheim's instruments,....

So who did the M12/Xpander?

beely · Post by **beely** » Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:47 pm

felis wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:41 pm So who did the M12/Xpander?

https://www.arturia.com/products/softwa ... v/overview

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:48 pm

In his own words:
He actually might have been there for Xpander.

https://www.tomoberheim.com/historical-products

rsp

Caine123 · Post by **Caine123** » Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:49 pm

dont you get these samples and more on various sites which also sell other directly sampled drum machines?

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:51 pm

Maybe, but afaik since they are samples (sound recordings) it is illegal to sample the DMX factory samples unless you got special permission to do so. (somewhat akin to why Roland is the only company that has a D-50 in software, cause only them and those who they authorize (I think they did something with Spectrasonics) can use those attack samples. Same with the sampled elements in the Roland 909.
rsp

Caine123 · Post by **Caine123** » Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:56 pm

zvenx wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:51 pm Maybe, but afaik since they are samples (sound recordings) it is illegal to sample the DMX factory samples unless you got special permission to do so. (somewhat akin to why Roland is the only company that has a D-50 in software, cause only them and those who they authorize (I think they did something with Spectrasonics) can use those attack samples. Same with the sampled Elements in the Roland 909.
rsp

didnt know that! thanks, i dunno if mars samples (correct name?) has DMX samples but i remember they also got various samples for good prices for example.

beely · Post by **beely** » Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:59 pm

zvenx wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:48 pm In his own words:
He actually might have been there for Xpander.

The Xpander was amongst the last products designed and built by the original Oberheim Electronics before its bankruptcy in 1985. The M12 was designed/developed by Marcus Ryle and Michel Doidic.

So yes, Tom was still there in 1984, but how involved he was in the design of the Xpander I'm not sure offhand (without going and looking it up). I think by then he was more running the company (or keeping it running) than designing synths - the Xpander was quite a departure from the early era Oberheim products that were very much designed by him. The Xpander isn't really regarded as a "Tom Oberheim" synth, iirc - hence my comment. But whether GF would want to do this is anyone's guess - I just feel that they have much more affinity with the pre-Xpander Oberheim, the 70s and early 80s.

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Tue Apr 30, 2024 8:01 pm

We shall indeed see.
I too would love an Xpander in software

.
rsp

Vortifex · Post by **Vortifex** » Tue Apr 30, 2024 8:05 pm

Graeme from Gforce replied to me to say that multi-outs are on the feature request list. So we'll wait and see.

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Tue Apr 30, 2024 8:06 pm

Interestingly even UVI/Falcon seems to have samples of the DMX vai their Beat Anthology.
It is of course possible they put their own samples in it and sampled the outputs which would avoid the sound recordings legality (if they didn't get licensed use for the samples)
rsp

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Tue Apr 30, 2024 8:06 pm

Vortifex wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2024 8:05 pm Graeme from Gforce replied to me to say that multi-outs are on the feature request list. So we'll wait and see.

That's great news for those who want it.
rsp

beely · Post by **beely** » Tue Apr 30, 2024 8:11 pm

zvenx wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:51 pm Maybe, but afaik since they are samples (sound recordings) it is illegal to sample the DMX factory samples unless you got special permission to do so. (somewhat akin to why Roland is the only company that has a D-50 in software, cause only them and those who they authorize (I think they did something with Spectrasonics) can use those attack samples. Same with the sampled elements in the Roland 909.

It might be not quite as clear cut as that. One of the reasons companies like Roland pursue copyright claims on recordings they own (eg, the D50 sample set) is to continue to protect the ownership. Under copyright law (but IANAL), if you don't pursue ownership claims for many years, there's precedent that if you demonstrate you don't care for long enough, the recordings can more or less become public domain, or at least much harder for companies who would own that IP to suddenly start claiming ownership on them decades years later, when they've shown they previously weren't bothered by that use. You can essentially lose control of them, by demonstrating neglect.

This seems to be part of the reason that Roland, despite being fairly aggressive in these things, *don't* tend to go after people with samples of their classic drum boxes (because they didn't for decades), even the digital ones - if anything, they''ll go after people on trademark/trade dress issues, than the actual recording copyrights.

So while technically, sampling old digital drum machines and selling samples or making derivative products from them without permission/licensing is violating the copyright of the copyright holder, whether it's *actually* illegal in practice is likely debateable, and probably a weakish case in the courts for the reasons outlined above. It's one of the reasons why samples of these machines are so widely available, both free, and in commercial products, for so long.

In any case, this one would be done with Tom's permission/blessing/licensing, and it contains not just the raw samples, but a bunch of different processed versions, expansion sounds and more, and nicely sampled. For the people that only care about the core original dry sounds, and don't really care about the GUI or some "pseudo-DMX hardware experience" (kind of), then they will be happy enough continuing to use the samples they already have, providing they've come from a quality source (there are plenty of bad samples out there too.)

Plus - it's a small amount of money (in no-brainer territory if you like this kind of thing - I do), it's a fun little product, and if it throws a few bucks GF's way, and Tom's way, that's an extra bonus as far as I'm concerned...

felis · Post by **felis** » Tue Apr 30, 2024 10:20 pm

zvenx wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:48 pm In his own words:
He actually might have been there for Xpander.

Thanks for the link. No names, but just says he had help.

beely wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:59 pm The Xpander was amongst the last products designed and built by the original Oberheim Electronics before its bankruptcy in 1985. The M12 was designed/developed by Marcus Ryle and Michel Doidic.

So yes, Tom was still there in 1984, but how involved he was in the design of the Xpander I'm not sure offhand (without going and looking it up). I think by then he was more running the company (or keeping it running) than designing synths - the Xpander was quite a departure from the early era Oberheim products that were very much designed by him. The Xpander isn't really regarded as a "Tom Oberheim" synth, iirc - hence my comment. But whether GF would want to do this is anyone's guess - I just feel that they have much more affinity with the pre-Xpander Oberheim, the 70s and early 80s.

I knew about Marcus, but not Michel. The matrix was quite a departure (and one of my favorite aspects). so it's always a bit disappointing when new announcements aren't as inclusive in that area.

GForce Oberheim DMX