One Synth Challenge #182: Charlatan 3 by BlauKraut Engineering / karrikuh (IrionDaRonin Wins!)

[silverpants]

I think what Impedance has done is really fun and inventive and I have no problem with it.

However - it does make me think about where this method could end - and that could be outside the spirit of OSC.

According to Fourier - any time based waveform can be transformed into the frequency domain - and back. Theoretically - perfectly.
Therefore theoretically one could record a song with real instruments (drums, guitars, vocals etc), and with enough sine waves at a high granularity of frequency - could replicate with high fidelity the sound of the recorded song with any synthesizer that can produce sine waves (with enough instances).

I don't suppose anyone will. But it's just a thought experiment. It wouldn't break the rules of OSC, but I think it would break the spirit.

[] Peter:H []

Audio 2 Midi is not new. There's videos on YT which "reproduce" for instance "staying alive" ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkDpunFo_2E
And I think I have shared the link when the discussion about what is in the spirit of OSC was more intense a few years back.
With AI and Midi 2.0 it should be possible to create even closer to the original results.

[doctorbob]

Thanks Peter - yes that was a fun thing to post - heard it before ... the brain is good at hearing what it wants eh?

As I said in my post, to capture the subtlety of speech via MIDI (ie notes with pitch bends!), then you need to capture the stack of formants and then play them through a synth with the correct style of OSC. The usual case for pure speech synthesis systems (vs phonemic or other forms), is to produce a glottal pulse (which you can see if you analyse a lot of the speech systems!). Some form of pulse would be good vs eg a sine/saw wave. I did have the source code (in VAXC) for MITTalk, the forerunner of DECTalk and clones. Using the KLATT synthesiser. All legal, btw, our team was gifted the code by the lab at MIT - just sitting on the shelf of Dennis Klatt's lab/office.

dB

[FrogsInPants]

I think what Impedance has done is really fun and inventive and I have no problem with it.

I appreciate this as an experiment, but I think it's already pushing the boundaries of the rules. If someone were to generate MIDI input like this without an audio input, I agree there would be no problem with it. Computing it from a recording, I'm not so sure. No use of samples is allowed. Arguably, that applies not only to use directly as a sound source, but also to side chaining and computing parameter inputs. If not, perhaps it should, so we have some kind of clear line on the matter.

[silverpants]

I think what Impedance has done is really fun and inventive and I have no problem with it.

I appreciate this as an experiment, but I think it's already pushing the boundaries of the rules. If someone were to generate MIDI input like this without an audio input, I agree there would be no problem with it. Computing it from a recording, I'm not so sure. No use of samples is allowed. Arguably, that applies not only to use directly as a sound source, but also to side chaining and computing parameter inputs. If not, perhaps it should, so we have some kind of clear line on the matter.

You make a good point.

[Impedance Music]

Which software did you use to convert the audio to MIDI? Various software comes to mind, and even simple ReaTune in Reaper can do it ...

Just wondered which way you went with this ...

dB

I've used this free Online Converter to create the midi:
https://www.bearaudiotool.com/de/mp3-to-midi

I think what Impedance has done is really fun and inventive and I have no problem with it.

However - it does make me think about where this method could end - and that could be outside the spirit of OSC. [...] It wouldn't break the rules of OSC, but I think it would break the spirit.

I appreciate this as an experiment, but I think it's already pushing the boundaries of the rules. [...] No use of samples is allowed. Arguably, that applies not only to use directly as a sound source, but also to side chaining and computing parameter inputs. If not, perhaps it should, so we have some kind of clear line on the matter.

Having read your comments: Yes, i agree - this is pretty much on the edge of what i would consider fine with the rules. An additional rule clarifying that computed inputs of actual audio samples are not permitted sounds good to me. Especially because it didn't occur to me as using a sample when creating the track.

[RichardSemper]

Final Results: IrionDaRonin - Gone is the Winner!!!!

1. IrionDaRonin - Gone - 182
2. ] Peter:H [ - Elron Molusks Karl - Marx - Experience On A Onewa - 175
3. z.prime - It Doesn't Get Better - 174
4. ChristopherWD - My drummer roommate won't stop practicing while - 169
5. davi-dj - Charlatán del Mar - 169

6. MadMcMan - Glennie wants a 303 - 168pts
7. Vospi - Who Cares - 166pts
8. Impedance Music - Charlatan - 165pts
9. The Sound Of Merlin - Time Is Up - 163pts
10. YYeet - Trick or Rave - 159pts
11. Viroo - 13 Chalatans - 157pts
12. neverbeeninariot - Quacksalver - 156pts
13. Leonard Bowman - 15 Days Without Knowing - 153pts
14. ThePresent - Tomato Sauce Accident - 153pts
15. empphryio - Stranded - 152pts
16. RichardSemper - Coral City - 151pts
17. abot81 - Rising Above - 150pts
18. nenneb - A Bath In The Woods (Collab with Taron) - 150pts
19. phankiejankie303 - Feeling Blue - 149pts
20. Ronny Pries - blaukraut != Brautkleid - 148pts
21. zipidowski - Cemetery - 148pts
22. simanus - Soft Feedback - 147pts
23. hennessey - Look Up - 147pts
24. VCA-089 - New Atlantis - 147pts
25. Juergen - Charlatan 3 By BlauKraut Engineering - 146pts
26. silverpants - Fusion Stomp - 144pts
27. doctorbob - The Charlatan Is Exposed - 144pts
28. BrainBeatMusic - The Charlatan - 142pts
29. MalToné - Eat Pray Syn(th) - 141pts
dq. orbeater - minimal mechagodzilla (orbeater for OSC 182) - 141pts
30. vata44 - A Charlatan's Dream - 141pts
31. ELEX - The Andromeda Twist - 138pts
32. diaseis - The Crooked Cloud Experience - 138pts
33. HappySpark - Imposter - 134pts
34. Neptune - Run Faster - 133pts
35. Eauson - Untitled - 132pts
36. wikter - Ready - 130pts
37. bzz - Hyperspace Charlatans - 129pts
dq. 574X - cling:suffer, accept:peace - 125pts
38. whatevergeek - Swamp Dance - 120pts
39. violator_alba - Clout Casting - 115pts

Prizes:
First place winner, please announce your chosen prize in a reply here on this thread. Next place winners, follow up, one after the other. You may choose to skip. To receive the prize, it may take some time (even a week-month+), but be patient. NOTE: prizes are not passed down below top 5

Awesome round! Excellent work everyone

Great too to see the return of some past Masters, also so many first time entrants! Hope you can stick around for future OSCs.
And many thanks to Blaukraut for this amazing reboot of the classic Charlatan!

Scoresheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

[RichardSemper]

Which software did you use to convert the audio to MIDI? Various software comes to mind, and even simple ReaTune in Reaper can do it ...

Just wondered which way you went with this ...

dB

I've used this free Online Converter to create the midi:
https://www.bearaudiotool.com/de/mp3-to-midi

I think what Impedance has done is really fun and inventive and I have no problem with it.

However - it does make me think about where this method could end - and that could be outside the spirit of OSC. [...] It wouldn't break the rules of OSC, but I think it would break the spirit.

I appreciate this as an experiment, but I think it's already pushing the boundaries of the rules. [...] No use of samples is allowed. Arguably, that applies not only to use directly as a sound source, but also to side chaining and computing parameter inputs. If not, perhaps it should, so we have some kind of clear line on the matter.

Having read your comments: Yes, i agree - this is pretty much on the edge of what i would consider fine with the rules. An additional rule clarifying that computed inputs of actual audio samples are not permitted sounds good to me. Especially because it didn't occur to me as using a sample when creating the track.

Note taken.
Might be a good idea to discuss this, and perhaps the possible impacts of AI for the challenge, over on the General Discussion thread:
viewtopic.php?t=301957&start=4455

[Impedance Music]

Congratulations to IrionDaRonin, PeterH, Z.Prime, ChristopherWD and DaviDJ! Well deserved! And also congratulations to all the participants since this round was really impressive!

Also big thanks to Richard and BJPorter for organizing this challenge each month!

Finally i didn't forget to congratulate the winners!
And this time on the correct tab!

[MadMcMan]

congrats to the winners!

[IrionDaRonin]

Guys!!!
Oh my... I didn't expect this. So happy!
When i saw my name in the main title my eyes were going to pop-out!

Thank you for all your support, votes, and points, and love. This for sure is a warm welcome!
You are all amazing, lovely friends and great musicians. Maybe i will stick in future OSCs.
Congrats to everybody to participate in the contest!


Now before i ask my prize, I saw "secondary" and "additional" prizes. Is this stackable prizes or how are these going exactly? This is totally new to me. Could anybody explain this further? Thanks!

[neverbeeninariot]

Big ups to the winner IrionDaRonin, it was a beautiful track.
Congratulations to the rest of the greenies PeterH, Z.Prime, ChristopherWD and DaviDJ !

[neverbeeninariot]

Finally i didn't forget to congratulate the winners!
And this time on the correct tab!

[ThePresent]

The return of several OSC champions hasn’t gone by unnoticed Congratulations, winners!

[doctorbob]

Congrats to the winners. All richly deserved. Also, kudos to the top 10, such a really good round of very strong entries.

dB