How to get the 70's 80's classic punk bass tone?

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Alyctro wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 3:52 am
VOODOO U wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 9:54 am
Alyctro wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 5:59 am Also, i don't own an actual guitar i use sample libraries
Ouch. Good luck with that. Use this: https://plugins4free.com/plugin/3187/
You'll need it. It's no magic formula obviously but every little bit helps.
Hahaha, such retro. I think i've used this at some point. But i was a noob who looked more for esthetics than decent sound. Now it's the opposite.
Well I am far from a noob and use it. As a matter of fact I got rid of NI Guitar Rig because I like the sound I get from freebies better - for both bass and guitar.
Anyhow, good luck. I'd listen to Donkey Tugger and get a bass or find a bassist who can get the sound you're after.

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kraster wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 8:44 am In true punk style don't overthink it.

With People like JJ Burnell, Paul Simonon and even Sid Vicious it's all about pluggin in and turning up and hacking into the guitar.

Play down near the bridge and lower the action for extra clank. Bright roundwound strings work best.

Marshall or Hiwatt for the amp heads and whatever you're having yourself for the cab. A busted speaker won't go amiss!

I can get a decent punk sound from softube's Marshall JCM 800.

I'd most associate Punk with a P-bass.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAs95uRN5fg

What about this one? It does have a clank to it.

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Sounds quite decent, but still not a patch on real playing. Thing is, it takes so long to program anything truly realistic to get something comparable to what you could knock out in a few minutes on a bass or guitar. In the end you'll actually save time (and get a better result) by putting in the time to learn. It's not that hard; I have fingers like stumpy sausages and I manage. :hihi:

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Alyctro wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 12:04 pm
kraster wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 8:44 am In true punk style don't overthink it.

With People like JJ Burnell, Paul Simonon and even Sid Vicious it's all about pluggin in and turning up and hacking into the guitar.

Play down near the bridge and lower the action for extra clank. Bright roundwound strings work best.

Marshall or Hiwatt for the amp heads and whatever you're having yourself for the cab. A busted speaker won't go amiss!

I can get a decent punk sound from softube's Marshall JCM 800.

I'd most associate Punk with a P-bass.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAs95uRN5fg

What about this one? It does have a clank to it.
It sounds cool but it's still finger based and still quite controlled sounding.

Modo Bass has a cool punk setting but I agree with Donkey Tugger. Investing in a real bass will be better in the long run.

It's punk so it doesn't need to be complicated or precise.

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Alyctro wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 3:47 am
Benedict wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 8:13 pm
Alyctro wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 3:55 pm
Benedict wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 2:22 pm ...software can do the real live thing but you want to use algorithms not IRs or anything similarly static. An algo moves the same way that an amp/speaker/box does. You simply need to learn

This is long and detailed but shows all you need to know to start your journey.
https://youtu.be/o8VTu0cU87I?si=2aiMImR249neCcfx
Did you mean algorhythmic reverb plugins or cab sims? I haven't found anything about this on google. And if you meant reverbs then i also don't understand. I've never heard about it being used as cab sim. I can't even think of a way how, or which specific one even work that way.
This is all explained in the video. An algo can be made for anything "real world". It may not have as many factors as the real thing (like reverbs) but can definitely deliver a very cool result. Watch the video (above) and see me build and alter the algo for a guitar cabinet thingee.

Further, I even made a simple VST for Higher Hz built on these ideas - an expansion of one of the devices in the first video.
https://youtu.be/UcVbnJPV5kg?si=wtawAFGY-OpWRYIE
I tried your vst, and it's one of a kind. I'm struggling to use it on my instruments despite the manual and the video. Or rather, i'm not sure if it's supposed to sound lik i set it up. I wanted to try to feed a raw amp signal into hzbox (as a cab), but it didn't work out. So then i tried Voxengo's cab maker and put it after that, just got pure fuzz. Then i went back and used hzbox as a cab, and wanted to capture an eq curve of an ir. Which should get the results i'm after, i'm just not sure if i'm overthinking these things or i need to better understand them. I can't really use plain reverb as my cab, that's just not practical. Am i supposed to use a cab sim and then hzbox? It does introduce variety for sure, but the way i see it it only adds resonancies and fuzz.
This: "i need to better understand them"

The problem is that you have this (popular) mindset that devs sell that you only need the preset and you become [insert famous name]. (Real) famous names become that because they have made their own thing. That DK "Holidays..." song is unique. Some of that is the band. Some of that is the Mix Engineer (and Record Producer). None of that is from gear or presets (which didn't exist).

While immensely unpopular in groups and forums, you need to learn your craft and a lot of that comes from finding and working with what you have and working with others who you build mutual trust with and let them lead you.

As for Hz Box it is explained in the video (and the underlying theory in the first video). It is not ever meant to be a set of presets on how to sound like Eddie V, or anyone at all. The whole idea is that you spend time finding something for yourself. That takes time and experience. That takes letting go of trying to be Eddie V but being open to what is there for you.
:-)

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For punk, thrash, hardcore bass I usually go with DI that's slightly overdriving the line in. For a bass vst I would mimic this with a fast compressor into a soft clip and just enough gain into those to sound a bit dirty. Once it's in I like to use a giant peak in the 1-3khz range to bring out the attack. When using live amps I use a way pedal for this peak and record that very clean in parallel. I find that the voicing of the bass part is a big part of this sound. Generally things are playing an octave above the "deep" part of the bass register and adding body to the distorted guitars that way.
Don't F**K with Mr. Zero.

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I use the Orange tree samples basses for plugin bass. The scarbee basses are dandy as well. Remembering that I'm going for a sound that was "diy" and very much based on whatever the musicians could get their hands on makes me way less picky and way more dubious that there is a "magic" bit of gear that is going to give the sound I want. It's way more about the performance.
Don't F**K with Mr. Zero.

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Ah_Dziz wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 8:41 pm Remembering that I'm going for a sound that was "diy" and very much based on whatever the musicians could get their hands on makes me way less picky and way more dubious that there is a "magic" bit of gear that is going to give the sound I want. It's way more about the performance.
Absolutely. Been messing about (nowt better to do except boring stuff like washing up..) with my plastic midi guitar and a directwave patch of my bass 6 I made a bit back (56mb in total, no velocity layers) and did this, which you old timers may recognise as a poorly played 1 minute rendition of the start of a post-punk classic (you try playing that fast on a plastic guitar with plastic strings.. :hihi: ) Naturally if I was doing it properly I'd edit the slides, but you get the idea;

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KHfSwi ... sp=sharing

A lot of randomization/modulation going on of sampler parameters, plus of transients etc, but the main thing which hopefully works for it is the 'holding on for dear life chasing the beat' playing and the accents.

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donkey tugger wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 12:27 am
Ah_Dziz wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 8:41 pm Remembering that I'm going for a sound that was "diy" and very much based on whatever the musicians could get their hands on makes me way less picky and way more dubious that there is a "magic" bit of gear that is going to give the sound I want. It's way more about the performance.
Absolutely. Been messing about (nowt better to do except boring stuff like washing up..) with my plastic midi guitar and a directwave patch of my bass 6 I made a bit back (56mb in total, no velocity layers) and did this, which you old timers may recognise as a poorly played 1 minute rendition of the start of a post-punk classic (you try playing that fast on a plastic guitar with plastic strings.. :hihi: ) Naturally if I was doing it properly I'd edit the slides, but you get the idea;

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KHfSwi ... sp=sharing

A lot of randomization/modulation going on of sampler parameters, plus of transients etc, but the main thing which hopefully works for it is the 'holding on for dear life chasing the beat' playing and the accents.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xLraBH ... sp=sharing
I may have overdone it.

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Alyctro wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 5:39 am
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xLraBH ... sp=sharing
I may have overdone it.
That's a nice bass tone but a million miles from punk - way too much bottom end and too hi-fi (despite the distortion).

donkey's sounds pretty damn good to me. Could be overcranked a little more, but it's definitely the right ballpark.
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Alyctro wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 5:39 am
donkey tugger wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 12:27 am
Ah_Dziz wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 8:41 pm Remembering that I'm going for a sound that was "diy" and very much based on whatever the musicians could get their hands on makes me way less picky and way more dubious that there is a "magic" bit of gear that is going to give the sound I want. It's way more about the performance.
Absolutely. Been messing about (nowt better to do except boring stuff like washing up..) with my plastic midi guitar and a directwave patch of my bass 6 I made a bit back (56mb in total, no velocity layers) and did this, which you old timers may recognise as a poorly played 1 minute rendition of the start of a post-punk classic (you try playing that fast on a plastic guitar with plastic strings.. :hihi: ) Naturally if I was doing it properly I'd edit the slides, but you get the idea;

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KHfSwi ... sp=sharing

A lot of randomization/modulation going on of sampler parameters, plus of transients etc, but the main thing which hopefully works for it is the 'holding on for dear life chasing the beat' playing and the accents.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xLraBH ... sp=sharing
I may have overdone it.
That would sound good in a metel track, but it's a bit posh for punk! Problem with a lot of these VSTi's is that they go all bells and whistles in trying to recreated the sound, but there's few options to really manipulate and humanize/randomize parameters at a detailed level to fine tune a performance. Sometimes you're better off with a sampler plug-in with a half decent starting patch.

Since you're on teh frootyloops, here's a zipped loop package of another version of my messing about using native plug-ins only, plus BassGrinderFree. The directwave patch is included and you can see in the modulation matrix how much is being subtly altered per note - not just ADSR, filters and stuff, but effect levels and all sorts (the random bitcrusher doing faux speaker rattle is a nice one!).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PIGpWF ... sp=sharing

If you're going for realism in these things (and often if it's not an exposed part then it's not worth it to be fair) then you really need to be able to get amongst it with as many small shifting changes as you can.

Sounds like this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg7lnev8JgI

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Play with a pick.
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP

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donkey tugger wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 7:45 am
Alyctro wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 5:39 am
donkey tugger wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 12:27 am
Ah_Dziz wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 8:41 pm Remembering that I'm going for a sound that was "diy" and very much based on whatever the musicians could get their hands on makes me way less picky and way more dubious that there is a "magic" bit of gear that is going to give the sound I want. It's way more about the performance.
Absolutely. Been messing about (nowt better to do except boring stuff like washing up..) with my plastic midi guitar and a directwave patch of my bass 6 I made a bit back (56mb in total, no velocity layers) and did this, which you old timers may recognise as a poorly played 1 minute rendition of the start of a post-punk classic (you try playing that fast on a plastic guitar with plastic strings.. :hihi: ) Naturally if I was doing it properly I'd edit the slides, but you get the idea;

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KHfSwi ... sp=sharing

A lot of randomization/modulation going on of sampler parameters, plus of transients etc, but the main thing which hopefully works for it is the 'holding on for dear life chasing the beat' playing and the accents.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xLraBH ... sp=sharing
I may have overdone it.
That would sound good in a metel track, but it's a bit posh for punk! Problem with a lot of these VSTi's is that they go all bells and whistles in trying to recreated the sound, but there's few options to really manipulate and humanize/randomize parameters at a detailed level to fine tune a performance. Sometimes you're better off with a sampler plug-in with a half decent starting patch.

Since you're on teh frootyloops, here's a zipped loop package of another version of my messing about using native plug-ins only, plus BassGrinderFree. The directwave patch is included and you can see in the modulation matrix how much is being subtly altered per note - not just ADSR, filters and stuff, but effect levels and all sorts (the random bitcrusher doing faux speaker rattle is a nice one!).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PIGpWF ... sp=sharing

If you're going for realism in these things (and often if it's not an exposed part then it's not worth it to be fair) then you really need to be able to get amongst it with as many small shifting changes as you can.

Sounds like this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg7lnev8JgI
Sorry i did not reply sooner. I was in a hospital. I ended up ordering a nice bass, i hope i won't regret it because i was trying to save money. Translating my skills from guitar shouldn't be too hard. And yes i've used FL for life now. Tried others too but i never understood why people would choose other daws since everything is so much harder to do there.

Plus, i checked out your instrument. Did you sample your physical bass?? Not bad at all, besides RR.

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Alyctro wrote: Fri May 31, 2024 12:37 am

Sorry i did not reply sooner. I was in a hospital. I ended up ordering a nice bass, i hope i won't regret it because i was trying to save money. Translating my skills from guitar shouldn't be too hard. And yes i've used FL for life now. Tried others too but i never understood why people would choose other daws since everything is so much harder to do there.

Plus, i checked out your instrument. Did you sample your physical bass?? Not bad at all, besides RR.

Blimey, hope everything is ok!

Yes I sampled my bass 6, which is this beast;

rjt60b-3small.jpg

Tuned like a guitar (E to E) but an octave lower. I like playing a lot of chords on it (wind up bass players... :hihi: ) and use it both as a bass and a low tuned baritone guitar.

The patch does have round robin by the way, but it's 'near-neighbour' RR - you drag the samples so they overlap, set a group number in the zone/trigger menu and select from cycle/random/avoid previous for the RR behaviour. It basically uses adjacent notes and pitch shifts them to the played note.
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donkey tugger wrote: Fri May 31, 2024 1:15 am
Alyctro wrote: Fri May 31, 2024 12:37 am

Sorry i did not reply sooner. I was in a hospital. I ended up ordering a nice bass, i hope i won't regret it because i was trying to save money. Translating my skills from guitar shouldn't be too hard. And yes i've used FL for life now. Tried others too but i never understood why people would choose other daws since everything is so much harder to do there.

Plus, i checked out your instrument. Did you sample your physical bass?? Not bad at all, besides RR.

Blimey, hope everything is ok!

Yes I sampled my bass 6, which is this beast;


rjt60b-3small.jpg


Tuned like a guitar (E to E) but an octave lower. I like playing a lot of chords on it (wind up bass players... :hihi: ) and use it both as a bass and a low tuned baritone guitar.

The patch does have round robin by the way, but it's 'near-neighbour' RR - you drag the samples so they overlap, set a group number in the zone/trigger menu and select from cycle/random/avoid previous for the RR behaviour. It basically uses adjacent notes and pitch shifts them to the played note.
I was thinking for a long time about a very famous "bass" tone from the White STripes Seven nation rmy cover. And as i recall, it was not a bass but a guitar tuned crazy low with a pitcher pedal. And if you put the bass out of context, it almost sounds like punk? I tried doing that to a sampled guitar but some things are not yet possible unless you have a physical one. Now i'm second guessing buying a bass only for practicing punk lol.

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