A wavetable synth plugin replacement for my beloved Microwave?

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egbert101 wrote: Tue May 28, 2024 11:41 am All you need to do is add the wavetables from your Microwave and then use them in whatever wavetable synthesizer supports them. Of course, they won't sound exactly the same because it's a different synth, so if you must have the sound of a microwave then use a microwave.

Here is an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_poQaAPt54
This fellow Ian Dixon is an absolute saint. All of the modwave sound banks he has created and basically made available for free (although a donation is always welcome) are rather remarkable.

But his "PPG" sound set doesn't sound anything like a real PPG or even a Microwave, IMO. That's not his fault. It's just that the modwave is super thin and digital-sounding by comparison.

FYI, I own the modwave native plugin and do find it useful for some things. But as a Microwave replacement, it's not even close.

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Supercollider wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 8:58 am Even "modern" wavetable synths like Serum, Icarus, Phase Plant, Vital, Hive, etc. (all of which I own) sound terrible, IMO. They don't sound musical at all to me.
lol, IMO.

You've already been exposed as a Microwave groupie who has made up his mind that no soft synth will compare (actually, you all but announced it in the OP) with a bias and closed mind and cluelessness about synths which speaks for itself, then add this "I know I'm right, convince me I'm wrong" idiocy. Why anyone wasted time reading more than the OP of this thread I can't imagine.

Attention whores :roll:

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Supercollider wrote: Tue May 28, 2024 6:16 am However, Serum's digital filters don't sound very good on these otherwise excellent analog wavetables. The filters seem to add a "glossy" sheen to everything and don't sound authentically analog to me.
Yes, Serum is unapologetically digital, ushered in new stages of electronic music. Making a synth contort to what it is not geared for is an exercise. With that said it's powerful enough to impart analog characteristics via the noise oscillator (which can be used as a modulator) and Chaos modulators (somewhat hidden on the Global page) to target osc pitch, filter, LFOs, etc.. LFOs can modulate each other. Individual points of the LFO shape can be modulated, so you can emulate all sorts of instabilities. Set this up once and save it as a template then you can swap generator sources quickly.

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All the personal nonsense aside, very interesting thread. These kinds of sounds I don't really have covered. I'm a big fan of the synths on Tangerine Dream's Exit from the early 80s, I believe they used a lot of PPG on that.

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Supercollider wrote: Tue May 28, 2024 4:47 pm
FYI, I did just pull the trigger on an Iridium today. I had been going back and forth on that synth for A LONG time now. I think the Iridium can sound a bit sterile at times and its all-digital filters are not the best. (Why oh why doesn't the Iridium include the awesome digital filters from the Microwave II/XT especially since almost all of these have been added to the M?) But still, the Iridium is an amazingly powerful synth.
Congrats, you won't regret it! Iridium is an extremely powerful synth.

FWIW guess Iridium does not come with the MW filters as not to compete with the M. Plus analog filters (as in the Quantum) makes the stereo sound path mono internally, that's not the case with digital filters (you can have two filters in serial and pan them separately on the Iridium).
Iridium can sound wavetably good, but it is NOT a substitute for a M.
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Stokely wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 6:57 am All the personal nonsense aside, very interesting thread. These kinds of sounds I don't really have covered. I'm a big fan of the synths on Tangerine Dream's Exit from the early 80s, I believe they used a lot of PPG on that.
Behringer will be releasing a knock off of the PGG Wave sometime soon (this year perhaps).

https://synthanatomy.com/2022/04/behrin ... leted.html
<list your stupid gear here>

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egbert101 wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 11:46 am Behringer will be releasing a knock off of the PGG Wave sometime soon (this year perhaps).

https://synthanatomy.com/2022/04/behrin ... leted.html
This looks very cool. I think I saw someone else mention it in another thread, would be cool to see Behringer do a Virus clone. Have they done any "all digital" synths lately (or at all)?
quod tu es, ego fui, quod ego sum, tu eris

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PebbleInAStream wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 12:39 pm This looks very cool. I think I saw someone else mention it in another thread, would be cool to see Behringer do a Virus clone. Have they done any "all digital" synths lately (or at all)?
They would have to buy the rights from Access to their source code, and in fact the same applies to any digital synth unless its open source or at least somehow reversed engineered. They do have a few digital inspired hybrid tiny synths, such as the JT-4000, PRO-VS MINI.
<list your stupid gear here>

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Yeah, the VS thing springs to mind. Doesn't seem like digital synths are really on Behringer's flightpath. Possibly there's a market for that sort of thing - revisited JD, D series etc but not sure they'd sell many.

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egbert101 wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 12:50 pm They would have to buy the rights from Access to their source code, and in fact the same applies to any digital synth unless its open source or at least somehow reversed engineered. They do have a few digital inspired hybrid tiny synths, such as the JT-4000, PRO-VS MINI.
Ah yeah I've seen the mini ones, they sound nice but seem kind of... "cute"? Maybe I've been spoiled by softsynths and their capabilities :lol: Yeah I'd assume they'd have to build their own sound engine, but hey everyone does that already for softsynths, right? I'd think it wouldn't be too different... would it? I mean obviously there is some difference since you're sort of creating a custom OS and not just building something to run on Mac or Windows...
kritikon wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 12:58 pm Doesn't seem like digital synths are really on Behringer's flightpath.
Oh well, shame. Guess I can dream for now :lol:
quod tu es, ego fui, quod ego sum, tu eris

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egbert101 wrote: Tue May 28, 2024 11:41 am All you need to do is add the wavetables from your Microwave and then use them in whatever wavetable synthesizer supports them. Of course, they won't sound exactly the same because it's a different synth, so if you must have the sound of a microwave then use a microwave.

Here is an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_poQaAPt54
I’ve been doing this for a while with mixed results. There’s something about how the PPG plays back wavetables that makes it different, though the PPG 3 plugin does a surprisingly decent job of it. From a-b comparisons I’ve seen, the software is a bit smoother sounding. Fewer digital artifacts. In a way, it’s actually a bit of an improvement.

Using the same wavetable in Dune 3 and on my M results in a more similar result. Of course, Dune doesn’t have an emulation of that same filter, VCA, etc, so it’s never going to be an exact match. If you aren’t hyper focused on getting an exact match, you’ll probably find that you can get equally great results. Making sure each voice has slightly different filter cutoff is really helpful in capturing that hardware sound.

I posted some PPG 3 vs 3rd Wave examples for two dudes who assured me that PPG 3 sucked in comparison. Neither one of them ventured to guess which was the hardware. Only one person in the tread posted and only to admit that he couldn’t tell me which one was the hardware. The two others made some lame comments about the posts were somehow flawed in a way. They contained a raw oscillator, filter sweep and full on complex preset comparison.

The truth is, modern software is very good. Any differences are almost always neutral in terms of quality. I love hardware synths, but I’m not delusional about them. I own the 3rd Wave more because of how far it goes beyond PPG 3, not because it sounds more like a PPG Wave.
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kritikon wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 12:58 pm Yeah, the VS thing springs to mind. Doesn't seem like digital synths are really on Behringer's flightpath. Possibly there's a market for that sort of thing - revisited JD, D series etc but not sure they'd sell many.
FWIW Behringer has said that the PPG Wave, DX7, Prophet VS, and other digital synths are very much on their radar

The challenge is the sample libraries of many digital synths are still under copyright so they can't use them. Instead the focus is on digital synths that use single cycle waveforms that can't be copyrighted

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I must have missed the BX7 thing. I guess that might sell as there aren't a huge number of FM hw synths. But against something like Opsix...a DX7 looks pretty feeble IMO. I still have a DX100 and really haven't touched it since I got the Opsix. It's easier to program, far more powerful, far more versatile and does almost everything the DX does for when I want backwards compatibility. It can drill holes in my eardrums and rattle the floorboards, which the DX never did (though the bass was pretty damned solid). For a BX7 to be attractive it'd have to have a full keyboard and some other bells'n'whistles. Behringer are capable of that, not sure they will though.

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mixyguy2 wrote: Tue May 28, 2024 8:10 pm
Supercollider wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 8:58 am Even "modern" wavetable synths like Serum, Icarus, Phase Plant, Vital, Hive, etc. (all of which I own) sound terrible, IMO. They don't sound musical at all to me.
lol, IMO.

You've already been exposed as a Microwave groupie who has made up his mind that no soft synth will compare (actually, you all but announced it in the OP) with a bias and closed mind and cluelessness about synths which speaks for itself, then add this "I know I'm right, convince me I'm wrong" idiocy. Why anyone wasted time reading more than the OP of this thread I can't imagine.

Attention whores :roll:
😂

Quite blunt, but perhaps touches on some good cognitive biases the OP seems to display.

Somehow Serum can only make those god-awful dubstep sounds. A Waldorf Microwave can only make cream-de-la-creme sounds that instantly send you to Valhalla. Surely the Microwave could not make god-awful nasty sounds just like nearly any other wavetable synth on earth?

😜

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LFO8 wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 11:14 pm

😂

Quite blunt, but perhaps touches on some good cognitive biases the OP seems to display.

Somehow Serum can only make those god-awful dubstep sounds. A Waldorf Microwave can only make cream-de-la-creme sounds that instantly send you to Valhalla. Surely the Microwave could not make god-awful nasty sounds just like nearly any other wavetable synth on earth?

😜
More expensive = more elite sounding. It's one of the worst forms of bias in the synth world.
<list your stupid gear here>

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