Roland Cloud

[Jon at Roland]

Where is Jon from Roland?

Hey y'all I'm here.

Around October I had 5080 and 1080 cpu spike issues. Support told me that an update soon will fix.
After so many years I finally quit my sub around Jan when it seemed that no fix is coming. I see that as of know there is still not a single update for those plugins.

Regarding the 5080 and 1080 plugins (and all SRX plugins) and the CPU spiking issues - They are known to impact higher end Apple M1 chips at this point. Roland support uses iMac’s, which aren’t impacted, and thus they won’t confirm the issue - even though everyone knows it’s an issue at this point.

Last I’d heard RC support had asked Roland to supply them with a Mac Studio they could use to verify the issue, but I don’t know if this request was ever granted. If it wasn't that would be an incredibly worrying thing..

Hey PAK and Ozinga. This will actually be brought up tonight with some of the higher ups in the dev team and there will be a discussion about what will be needed to locate why some users are experiencing this and others aren't and what will be needed to solve the issue.

Thank you for your patience, eventually this issue will be solved and I appreciate you reaching out about it.

sorry, i understand you are just the messenger. but if you guys are really interested in community feedback, maybe you can pass on this thread to the decision makers.

I think it’s fair to say the RC subscription has lost interest for many and a vast majority of people would just like to actually buy Roland’s awesome sounding plug-ins at a reasonable asking price

Your thoughts ?

Hey damoog and Jamminfool. Thanks so much for the questions. Always love talking to ya. Customers use Roland Cloud for a plethora of reasons. Many people enjoy our sound packs, patch collections, GALAXIAS etc.. or just having access to our entire catalog via our Ultimate Membership. This KVR thread focuses on what releases we have coming up and when they will get to play with a new instrument. I completely understand this. This is not something we are doing away with. As you all know I am unable to announce up and coming releases. That being said all you can do is trust me when I say we are working on lots of new things, we are still working on fixing the old things and we do not want users to have the kind of sentiment I see on this forum. We took last year to start fine tuning old instruments, work on some new features and created a team specifically for GALAXIAS, among lots of other things. GALAXIAS has not been a failure for what it's worth but instead has opened up some bigger possibilities for the future of Roland Cloud Manager. I am always willing to answer what I can for you all. I appreciate you and I am advocating for you all the time and I think as time goes on you will start seeing those results.

On the topic of Auth issues with v3.1.5. We still are offering v3.1.3 to users who are having difficulty using Roland Cloud with the newest update. We are working on resolving these issues so let me know if you need further assistance and we are currently collecting data so if you got the time please think about reaching out to customer support.

Thanks y'all

[superscan]

Hi Jon- thanks for the updates. I’ve given up on the software side after a couple of years of authentication and stability on the M1 Ultra. My use case is on the creative side during sessions with Artists and sadly every time I went to use any instrument I’d be plagued one of these issues. Nothing kills inspiration more. I’m a big fan, and used them widely on my Intel Mac Pro before it died. I have a Juno X and that’s going to have to do for now, maybe I’ll get a Fantom. But please pass along to the internal folks that in the days of subscription based services, the expectations are that the product works and there’s continual added value in exchange for said subscription. I maxed out the amount of instruments, so you know I’ve been a subscriber on the Ultimate plan since day one. I hope things turn around for you guys.

[JamminFool]

All of the Roland Cloud instruments use the BCM emulator for both ACB and Zenology instruments

i have never seen this claim before.

If true, it makes me wonder why there was a need for ABM in order to essentially make redundant and less accurate versions of the same synths (the "Model Bank synths") already available on RC in the form of the Legendary Synths.

If your claim is correct, it seems to me they could have simply made versions of the Legendary synths (still using ACB) with updated GUIs to match the look of Zenology and retained the accuracy of ACB, rather than rebuilding them completely using ABM for a less accurate result.

but again, i am speculating. i don't really know. tbf, the whole ACB, BCM, ABM transition was very confusing to understand when it happened and no less so now.

[IvyBirds]

All of the Roland Cloud instruments use the BCM emulator for both ACB and Zenology instruments

i have never seen this claim before.

If true, it makes me wonder why there was a need for ABM in order to essentially make redundant and less accurate versions of the same synths (the "Model Bank synths") already available on RC in the form of the Legendary Synths.

It's really not that hard

Again first you need to think about the hardware Roland makes. If that hardware is ACB it's a digital synth. It's a computer in a box with keys. ACB is just software that supposedly models everything again digitally in software

Rather than do what Korg does and use off the shelf CPUs to run that software Roland uses custom CPU chips again to run software again in their hardware synths. That CPU Roland calls BCM

ACB is great for making hyper accurate emulations of analog synths

A few years after ACB came out again in hardware Roland came into with Zen Core. Zen Core is the same idea Roland has been using since the JV/JD/XV Synths of the 1990? The idea being you can have four partials which in this case can either be a sample or virtual wave forms. Again this is software and again it runs on the same BCM CPU chips

So to summarize you have Roland Hardware Synths, they use custom made CPUs Roland calls BCM chips. Just like the CPU in your computer the BCM chips can run different kinds of software. If you have a System 8 that software will be what Roland calls ACB. If you load the Jupiter 8 into your System 8 it will load the Jupiter 8 software and the BCM chips will run that software. If you have say the new Fantom that is Zen Core based that software will also run on the BCM chips

Again ACB and Zen Core are two different approaches. One tries to be an exact digital replica of the actual analog circuits. The other is a VA synth that can have up to four oscillators. Zencore can emulate a Jupiter 8 pretty well because it's 4 partials can act like VA oscillators and those emulate the Jupiter 8, you also can emulate the modulation envelopes, modulation and filter

Those same partials can also playback samples emulating various Roland Romplers which again are using the same basic system that has been on place since the early 90s, or you can mix and match

Again all of that is in the hardware and both systems use BCM chips.

Now Roland spent a ton of money and effort writing the software for those ACB and Zencore Synths

Rather than reinvent the wheel, they just wrote an emulator. That emulator emulates the BCM CPU and system that exists in the ACB and Zencore hardware

That way they didn't have to reinvent the wheel and they can use the same code that runs the Jupiter 8 ACB on your Mac or Windows PC, and run the Jupiter 8 Zencore which is called "Zenology" in Cloud Instruments

Again BCM is a CPU and computer system, the Roland Cloud Software instruments run in that emulated environment, just like you can emulate many old computer systems as virtual machines inside of Windows

All BCM is, is a computer system

[JamminFool]

can you cite sources (preferably from Roland) that confirm this?

as an aside, the use of partials in their synth architecture has nothing to do with ACB, ABM, or BCM.

and you didn't answer why they would need ABM if ACB runs on a BCM emulator.

[IvyBirds]

can you cite sources (preferably from Roland) that confirm this?

as an aside, the use of partials in their synth architecture has nothing to do with ACB, ABM, or BCM.

and you didn't answer why they would need ABM if ACB runs on a BCM emulator.

I have already posted a tear down video of the System 8 you can see the BCMs right inside of it, and I posted an article of the CEO Roland talking about the BCM chips inside of the Zen Core Jupiter X

As far as ABM you are getting way to cought up in Roland's marketing terms, ABM is just Zen Core

The reason they made Zen Core is simple, it's much more CPU friendly and gives you the ability to have many different timbres in one instrument

So if you buy a Jupiter X you can not only play the Jupiter 8, but a bunch of other Synths as well including sample based instruments which means you can have samples Piano sound , String Sounds etc and layer up to 5

You also get a massive boost of polyphony with Zencore you get 256 voices of polyphony with each partial taking one voice

It's becoming very very clear at this point you have zero idea how any of this works and probably Synths in general, my suggestion is you sit this out

[JamminFool]

^
oh boy, i'm pretty sure you didn't understand what you read.

but that's ok. when you resort to insults, i know you are full of shit.

[IvyBirds]

oh boy, i'm pretty sure you didn't understand what you read.

but that's ok. when you resort to insults, i know you are full of shit.

So prove me wrong then, what exactly am I full of shit on? Because you declare it to be so?

As you admitted you are ignorant and confused to reality

but again, i am speculating. i don't really know. tbf, the whole ACB, BCM, ABM transition was very confusing to understand when it happened and no less so now.

You said you really don't know, but then say I am full of shit hilarious

[JamminFool]

lol. you are a funny guy who claims to know everything, but all you posted was crap that had nothing to do with proving your speculation. read the article you posted again (more carefully this time) and discover how badly you comprehended. the difference between us is that I humbly admit to not knowing and wanted to discover if I could learn something. you, however engaged in distraction points which did not prove anything and were not even relevent. as i suspected all along, pure speculation, but worse, not even credible.

but don't worry, be happy pretender.

anyway, i will let you have the last word as you have proven yourself not worthy of a further response. lol.

[IvyBirds]

lol. you are a funny guy who claims to know everything, but all you posted was crap that had nothing to do with proving your speculation.

Only I am not speculating and unlike you don't suffer from reading comprehension issues

Again prove I am full of shit. What exactly in the article proves I am full of shit

Anyway this has gone on long enough either prove I am full of shit or not no need to reply until you can prove I am wrong

[ozinga]

Hey PAK and Ozinga. This will actually be brought up tonight with some of the higher ups in the dev team and there will be a discussion about what will be needed to locate why some users are experiencing this and others aren't and what will be needed to solve the issue.

Thank you for your patience, eventually this issue will be solved and I appreciate you reaching out about it.


Thanks y'all

Hi Jon,

Thank you for the reply. As PAK mentioned it affects higher end M1 chips. I have the issue on my M1 Max Macbook Pro but not on my home use M1 Macbook Air.

[Caine123]

higher up in the dev team, when i read this i feel not well.
we the pawns have no voice to talk to the higher ups... oh man...

[Teksonik]

Customers use Roland Cloud for a plethora of reasons.

As a counterpoint....Some people refuse to be customers because of the Roland Cloud for a plethora of reasons.

I would have happily bought a lot of your plugins starting with the D-50 since I always wanted to own the hardware if they didn't require the Roland Cloud app.

I've had the Roland Cloud installed on a test system and found it to be nothing more than useless bloatware. Sell your plugins without it, make them challenge response if you must and I'd be a loyal customer and while I don't speak for others I'm likely not alone.

You can easily count customers but you'll never be able to count those who won't be customers due to your chosen method of business.

Now I'm not delusional enough to think that what I'm writing here will make one bit of difference in the way you run your business but perhaps at one of those all hands on deck business meetings just bring it up and as they say in the corporate world "run it up the flag pole and see who salutes". Just let them know that while the Roland Cloud may generate some business it is costing you business as well.

[shatteredmindofbob]

I know this thread is for shitting on Roland Cloud, and I agree with most of the complaints...

...but I'm really digging the JD-990 Zenology pack that came out today... took me five minutes to sound like Carbon Based Lifeforms.

[vulpes777]

I know this thread is for shitting on Roland Cloud, and I agree with most of the complaints...

Counterpoint: this thread was opened in 2016 to discuss the Roland plugins. The reason why most people are focusing on the negative aspects of the Roland Cloud software is because since then:

the last new instrument has been released nearly two years ago.

Several longstanding bugs haven't been fixed since release, regardless of how severe they are (see: long bank names showing up as eldritch text in the UI, or the broken arpeggiator speed that was quietly shelved, or the JD900 envelope bug, or the Zenology loading times, or the CPU spikes on newer Macs).

Most of the recent content is either sample packs or patches, some are objectively good, the vast majority of them...I don't really care for, not for the full subscription price anyway.

RCM is by far the most unstable management app I have installed: I am online nearly every day, and it still pops up with connection errors and/or forces me to sign in again every few weeks (I used to think the one by Korg was even worse, but they seem to have gotten their act together.

EDIT: forgot to mention the missing features that are, indeed, still missing after all these years, like the Performance/Multis in the JV/XV series, or the RAM/User banks, or the SRX waveforms and patches.

--
Marco