Kilohearts Updates the Entire Kilohearts Ecosystem to v2 - Including Phase Plant

[Harry_HH]

Kilohearts product family, in my opinion, has become in the past 2 years one of the best sounding in the market.
I’ve got the whole line, except some of the soundpack expansions.

[limitlesssss]

FL-Studio is 32bit FP. If KH updates their plugins to 64bit FP, then, as you say, there will be destructive conversation?

Cubase, Nuendo, WaveLab, Studio One, Logic Pro, Pro Tools, Cakewalk all support 64-Bit Floating Point operation.

If your DAW doesn't suppport 64-Bit FP, and a plug-in is internally operating at 64-Bit FP, then said plug-in will convert the signal to 32-Bit FP before sending it to your DAW. If your DAW supports 64-Bit FP, and a plug-in operates at 32-Bit FP, then the plug-in either converts the signal to 64-Bit FP before sending it to the DAW, or the DAW itself does the job.

Converting from 32-Bit FP to 64-Bit FP is lossless according to my past experience and it also makes sense that that's the case. Converting from 64-Bit FP to 32-Bit FP on the other hand is destructive and cannot be undone.

So if your DAW is only capable of handling 32-Bit FP signals, then don't worry about the plug-ins, because your DAW is the “bottleneck”. If on the other hand, your DAW is 64-Bit FP capable, then ideally you want everything to be at 64-Bit FP without conversion from 32-Bit FP to 64-Bit FP and then back to 32-Bit FP hundreds of times.

Unfortunately when it comes to 64-Bit Floating Point, many people are defensive for some strange reason. As if modern computers are not capable of handling it. The only understandable reason I can think of, is the fact that they don't want the developer to “waste” their time on updating their plug-ins to 64-Bit FP.

I even tried to convince myself that if inserting 64 snapins in a session doesn't increase the noise above 24-Bit (-144.5dB dynamic range), I'll just be okay with it. But then, as I showed above EVEN ONE kHs Gain plug-in at 0dB (without cutting or boosting), increases the noise level from -infinity to -150dBFS. Two kHs Gain plug-ins with cutting and boosting increase the noise to -129dB. 64 kHs Gain plug-ins increase the noise to -101dBFS. So yeah, something's going on even if many people don't want to admit it or are okay with it.

[RPH]

64 kHs Gain plug-ins increase the noise to -101dBFS.

Burn your audio to CD, noise gone.

CD audio with 16bit can only reproduce -96dB.

viewtopic.php?t=357481

[RPH]

Unfortunately when it comes to 64-Bit Floating Point, many people are defensive for some strange reason. As if modern computers are not capable of handling it. The only understandable reason I can think of, is the fact that they don't want the developer to “waste” their time on updating their plug-ins to 64-Bit FP.

Maybe the answer is a bit more down to earth:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-pr ... arithmetic

[limitlesssss]

Unfortunately when it comes to 64-Bit Floating Point, many people are defensive for some strange reason. As if modern computers are not capable of handling it. The only understandable reason I can think of, is the fact that they don't want the developer to “waste” their time on updating their plug-ins to 64-Bit FP.

Maybe the answer is a bit more down to earth:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-pr ... arithmetic

Even if speed is the excuse for not using 64-Bit FP, then how do you explain developers who do use 64-Bit FP? They don't care about speed?

[WackyZoundz]

Most developers stopped caring about speed 20 years ago...

[RPH]

how do you explain developers who do use 64-Bit FP? They don't care about speed?

Interesting thread to read, gives some answers. And pointer about your testing method being valid or not.

https://forums.steinberg.net/t/64-bit-f ... s/99549/60

[RPH]

Most developers stopped caring about speed 20 years ago...

Bullshit, the first thing people complain about is CPU usage in a plugin.
Every dev works on providing an efficient plugin.

[Igro]

Most developers stopped caring about speed 20 years ago...

Bullshit, the first thing people complain about is CPU usage in a plugin.
Every dev works on providing an efficient plugin.

Bullshit, I stay way from bad quality plugins, even if they use 0% CPU.

[WackyZoundz]

Bullshit, the first thing people complain about is CPU usage in a plugin.

Obviously no bullshit. Just compare plugins like multi-band compressors for example. Take software developed 15 or 20 years ago and compare them to what is released today. The difference in CPU and RAM usage is huge despite doing the exact same thing at the exact same samplerate with the exact same filter order. The code is ridiculously bloated. A lot of resources are also wasted on GUIs which nobody needs. Many plugins don't even need a GUI at all.

[Jac459]

Unfortunately when it comes to 64-Bit Floating Point, many people are defensive for some strange reason. As if modern computers are not capable of handling it. The only understandable reason I can think of, is the fact that they don't want the developer to “waste” their time on updating their plug-ins to 64-Bit FP.

Maybe the answer is a bit more down to earth:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-pr ... arithmetic

Even if speed is the excuse for not using 64-Bit FP, then how do you explain developers who do use 64-Bit FP? They don't care about speed?

Man you created a specific thread about it and now, because nobody was giving a s...t you are polluting the main Phase Plant thread ??

I mean, if we don't care, why continuing to insist on it...
I'll just be careful not to add 128 consecutive Kilohearts plugins...

[Jac459]

Bullshit, the first thing people complain about is CPU usage in a plugin.

Obviously no bullshit. Just compare plugins like multi-band compressors for example. Take software developed 15 or 20 years ago and compare them to what is released today. The difference in CPU and RAM usage is huge despite doing the exact same thing at the exact same samplerate with the exact same filter order. The code is ridiculously bloated. A lot of resources are also wasted on GUIs which nobody needs. Many plugins don't even need a GUI at all.

Developers like any other human being are taking care of the most pressing problems first. And CPU usage has stopped being a pressing problem in the general industry since about 25-30 years ago.
That's how C/C++ stopped being the kings and went behind Java and a bit later C#/.Net.

BUT

That is for general industry. There is a ton of exceptions, I do believe that plugin industry is part of this exception.

And what do you mean by bloated ? Can you give specific examples ? Like which MB compressor was as powerful as Fabfilter plugin is nowadays and using less CPU ?
I am curious.

[teilo]

Kilohearts has announced a significant free update to the entire Kilohearts Ecosystem of plugins with the release of Kilohearts v2.

Kilohearts Plug-ins Aren't Bit Transparent (Request 64-Bit FP update)

Please stop.

[liquidsound]

Limitlesssss should use a De-Esser before posting

[martinjuenke]

Limitlesssss should use a De-Esser before posting

Can you recommend one with noise floor below -200dB?