Three-Body Technology Cenozoix Compressor (Plugin Alliance)

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Three-Body Technology Cenozoix Compressor

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bmanic wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 9:20 am Good to hear! However, did you try Attack 0.3ms and get equal effortless loudness and tamed peaks?

That's the key here. At longer attack times, most of the SSL compressors work just like the hardware, well sort of.. however at shorter attack times it gets much more difficult and unstable (or as some would say "grainy"). That's what impresses me with Cenozoix. Though to be fair, I haven't compared it to a hardware unit as I don't have access to one at the moment. I suspect the hardware would possibly choke at these settings too so I'm not saying Cenozoix SSL algorithm is realistic, I'm just thoroughly impressed by how little damage it does to the audio. It seems to have very clever program dependent behavior, ideal for complex signals and thus ideal for busses.

To be fair though, if you want _the_ SSL behavior that most seek, it's pretty much universally used with either 10ms or 30ms attack and 100ms, 300ms or Auto releases, 95% of the time. :)

Personally I've always loved the shorter attack times on the SSL compressors. I always used something else for "smack" and "punch".
ah yes, i get your point. I havent tested the shortest Attacks with the Softube Bus Processor yet. For the shortest attack times i usually grab fircomp2 (which can be also set to mimick an ssl) or DC8C but i will give it a spin and try.

Unfortunately the ssl comp i have here is the simplified version (alas simplified in exactly the way one usually wants anyway) , with the SSL Six's G-Bus Comp running in Atk 30ms/Rls 0.1, 4:1, so my own hw/software tests are limited to that.

(absolutely loving the SSL six by the way, its like a Swiss Army knife and got also the two channel comps 8-30ms atk / around 300ms release at 2:1, as well as the LMC on board, and with Six's general ultra portable usage, abundance of inserts and returns on D-Sub etc, arguably more flexible than the bigger brother the SSL Big Six)
Decisions create art. Options create anxiety.

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This might be the best plugin comp ever made imo.

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Q:

My main query in short: which mode on the Cenozoix would you chose ?
I´ve set it right now to "hard".



i need to tame a live jamm patch.
point is, i have a volume fader coupled to another parameter.
I jamm with that,.... i totally can´t avoid to overdo things !
Also, since that parameter is also case sensitiv....and as sayed: coupled now to a volume fader for some auto correction vs. gain.

i need a compressor with high ratio, around 1:10 or maybe more.
i have to tame these very loud passages. These are sort of perkussive vs. its loud peaks.
Not like Drums/percussion, more like a perkussively played Synth sound.

so, i´m looking for much gain reduction when needed.
point is the roundness of the action. That should be a fit.
Round, but still quick at way too high volume peaks

i started that now, using the Cenozoix.
I´ve set it, mode, to: "hard".

punch setting to: pump, 80% or so.

attack, around 95ms, Release around 180mS.

it´s allready working, .......nevertheless, to have a suitable mode, and to know that it is, would be a good help to walk further.

not necessarily asking for specific settings, mainly the mode !
but if you just got ideas ;)
"Plugin has turned Drug now"....and the business knows it.

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jtsterays wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2024 9:39 am This might be the best plugin comp ever made imo.
agree this comp is really good. at first i was not into it, expecting more tone/color and compression artifacts compared to similar comp emus it models at similar GR.

but i discovered this is the strong point of this compressor: you can do absurd amounts of fairly clean GR while retaining the original tone/structure before it breaks up. on some sources it's scary how much GR you can achieve. sidechain eq is great, declick + punch/pump controls awesome. the new drive update is really good. Cenozoix rocks on channels but if not in need of the AMC/MDWDRC multiple detector thing or Unisum's extensive controls i'd see myself happily using this for critical/mastering sessions.

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ok, i´m allreday quite satisfied, still having it set to "hard" mode.

if @bmanic would like to read my above post, and share his thoughts vs. which mode might be a good idea, that would be much appreciated ;).


...but maybe is everybody at the beach somewhere.....? oh well :lol:
"Plugin has turned Drug now"....and the business knows it.

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Is this still THE BEST COMP EVER, or has everyone moved on?

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The harmonic stuff is crazy subtle, lol. I can hear it change the position of waveforms axis relative to other sounds(bass sounds and transients mostly), but i'm not hearing any saturation. Makes sense as the delta is below the 16bit noisefloor on almost all of the settings even with the drive set to 200%. Gain staging it hotter doesn't seem to change that either.
I

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kevinsparks wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2024 12:53 am Is this still THE BEST COMP EVER, or has everyone moved on?
It's honestly one of them, no exaggeration.

The sheer amount of options is staggering and it performs exceptionally well in pretty much every scenario you throw at it.

Very nice UI but there is a lot of depth there so there is a bit of a learning curve.

"Best ever" is always going to be a bold claim by Cenozoix is definitely making a very strong case for itself.

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out of curiosity, how did you measure the delta? if i insert cenozoix on 2 identical tracks with a peak normalized file + phase flip one of them it zeroes but with one of the instances' harmonics enabled at 200% i get residue up to about -14dBFS (red comp, hefty 10dB GR) in mix context it's definitely not the most obvious saturation compared to other comps but i can clearly hear it (i really like the focusrite one on drums and the vintage tube/mastering on 2bus)
TIMT wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2024 3:41 am The harmonic stuff is crazy subtle, lol. I can hear it change the position of waveforms axis relative to other sounds(bass sounds and transients mostly), but i'm not hearing any saturation. Makes sense as the delta is below the 16bit noisefloor on almost all of the settings even with the drive set to 200%. Gain staging it hotter doesn't seem to change that either.

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ispot wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2024 7:10 pm out of curiosity, how did you measure the delta? if i insert cenozoix on 2 identical tracks with a peak normalized file + phase flip one of them it zeroes but with one of the instances' harmonics enabled at 200% i get residue up to about -14dBFS (red comp, hefty 10dB GR) in mix context it's definitely not the most obvious saturation compared to other comps but i can clearly hear it (i really like the focusrite one on drums and the vintage tube/mastering on 2bus)
TIMT wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2024 3:41 am The harmonic stuff is crazy subtle, lol. I can hear it change the position of waveforms axis relative to other sounds(bass sounds and transients mostly), but i'm not hearing any saturation. Makes sense as the delta is below the 16bit noisefloor on almost all of the settings even with the drive set to 200%. Gain staging it hotter doesn't seem to change that either.
You are getting -14dBFS delta because of the 10dB of gain reduction, not the harmonics. Use the harmonics on their own and you'll see what i mean.. I thought perhaps the harmonics might be gain reduction dependent, but there is no mention of that interdependence in the manual and it's strongly implied that they aren't

From the manual: "We may have heard or experienced that, sometimes when we pass the audio through a hardware compressor, the sound will get improved even we did not adjust any knob. It is totally possible and reasonable because in the real world, every circuit component produces harmonic distortions, even when the compressor is not processing compression at all. The input buffer of circuits may create harmonics, the tube amp may create harmonics, and the cathode follower too... All those harmonics make the hardware sound great, not only the compression itself. In Cenozoix, not only the compression-caused harmonics were emulated, we also emulated the harmonics from the hardware itself."
I

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TIMT wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2024 3:41 am The harmonic stuff is crazy subtle, lol. I can hear it change the position of waveforms axis relative to other sounds(bass sounds and transients mostly), but i'm not hearing any saturation. Makes sense as the delta is below the 16bit noisefloor on almost all of the settings even with the drive set to 200%. Gain staging it hotter doesn't seem to change that either.
It's definitely on the subtle side but also definitely not below 16bit noisefloor. Most of the deltas (with ratio 1:1, zero GR), no matter which algorithm is used, is around -60dBFS on full program material. Some of the models will add a high cut filter which obviously changes the delta a lot.

Having said that, this plugin is REALLY really strange in it's behavior in terms of the saturation and I have absolutely no idea how it's being done. Doesn't matter how hard you drive within the plugin or from within the DAW, the harmonics keep extremely clean. It is literally impossible to get it to distort audibly (as in really destroying something), yet it IS adding harmonics.

You can see the rather complex harmonic structure in Plugin Doctor and you can see the harmonic series changes with both amplitude and frequency.. but the behavior is definitely uncoupled somehow and is not acting like anything else. Definitely not "realistic" in terms of analogue emulation but it's interesting and you can clearly hear the different flavors as a critical listening challenge. I did do a few rounds of ABX tests when this update with the harmonics was released and concluded that it is possible to hear the differences between the models on full program material.

Still, this is definitely not a plugin you buy for "the mojo". This is a plugin you buy for the compressor itself. The dynamics processing of this is exceptionally unique, flexible and awesome in my opinion! The harmonic saturation is just a small sweetener.. a weird one at that!

EDIT: There seems to be some kind of clipping/limiting ceiling, specifically for the harmonics generation. The maximum loudness of the harmonics are clearly limited. You can push into this ceiling with both input gain within the plugin or with the % slider. If you have a signal close to 0dBFS going into the plugin then pushing past 100% harmonics will actually limit the ceiling further and you end up with a harmonic series that isn't any more part of the "original" series as you are now clipping it.

Yeah, it's super weird. It's like it's a separate parallel process where they take the delta, thus extracting the harmonics only, and then manipulating this delta, including it's maximum volume.

EDIT2: .. oh and it looks like 8x oversampling doesn't report latency correctly either. Yeah, these TBT Tech plugins are not exactly the most robust out there. Tons of oddities and bugs with almost all of them (it took Kirchoff EQ years to be 100% reliable and predictable and even to this day the dynamics part of it is a bit strange).
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

"They don't ban hate speech; they ban speech they hate." -an oracle

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bmanic wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2024 4:51 pm
TIMT wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2024 3:41 am The harmonic stuff is crazy subtle, lol. I can hear it change the position of waveforms axis relative to other sounds(bass sounds and transients mostly), but i'm not hearing any saturation. Makes sense as the delta is below the 16bit noisefloor on almost all of the settings even with the drive set to 200%. Gain staging it hotter doesn't seem to change that either.
EDIT2: .. oh and it looks like 8x oversampling doesn't report latency correctly either. Yeah, these TBT Tech plugins are not exactly the most robust out there. Tons of oddities and bugs with almost all of them (it took Kirchoff EQ years to be 100% reliable and predictable and even to this day the dynamics part of it is a bit strange).
Deep Vintage appears to have some truncation errors too. Some talk about it on gearspace. https://gearspace.com/board/new-product ... ogy-7.html

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Man, I had so much hope in the Kirchoff EQ and now this. :?
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El°HYM wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2024 8:06 pm Man, I had so much hope in the Kirchoff EQ and now this. :?
What hopes ? if i may ask
and what do you mean with "this" ?
"Plugin has turned Drug now"....and the business knows it.

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El°HYM wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2024 8:06 pm Man, I had so much hope in the Kirchoff EQ and now this. :?
Kirchoff EQ latest version 1.70 is working exceptionally well here. I think that plugin can be considered "fully complete".

But yeah, the other plugins are a bit of a mixed bag. Cenozoix is also working as expected, as a compressor, except for the 8x oversampling buggy latency reporting to the host (and the sometimes weird behavior of the Vintage Tube model but I haven't been able to track down it's strange buggy behavior reliably yet). So just avoid it. For most things 2x oversampling is more than enough.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

"They don't ban hate speech; they ban speech they hate." -an oracle

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