The bs of Pro DAWs Vs amateur DAWs
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- KVRAF
- 3350 posts since 30 Dec, 2014
Studio One - Chesterfield Armchair Edition.
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gentleclockdivider gentleclockdivider https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=203660
- KVRAF
- 6530 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies
Soul calibrating ..frequencies
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 3694 posts since 3 Jul, 2022
Good one ...gearwatcher wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 9:41 am Someone in the thread is being destroyed with Logic and Reason but I'm not sure sure who
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 3694 posts since 3 Jul, 2022
Bought two.gentleclockdivider wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 12:11 pm This seems pretty pro
Couldn't resist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLfgrFrmeIc
So pro.
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- KVRist
- 39 posts since 21 Feb, 2023
How do you program your pianoroll with only four notes in a way that each notes retriggers itself 3times? I guess you have just compared the strength of one software to the weakness of another, which is not a fair comparison. It is like you are asking why can’t a piano slide notes like a trombone. Trackers and daws are made for two different type of people with two different mindsets which former focuses on programming music sequences, while recording performance for the later, which imo, incomparable.WackyZoundz wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2024 1:03 am Question: How do you record a live MIDI performance in a tracker including modulation and pitchbending?
- How do you even program pitchbending in a tracker?
> With node slide commands. 1 for slide up; 2 for slide down; 3 slides to the destination note.
- How do you program swing?
> We time things based on tick speed, default on 6 which means for every row, the tracker counts 6 events before moving on to another row. We can swing by alternating the tick speed between 4 and 6 tick for every row.
- Or polyrhythms?
> Renoise and SunVox can go into high tick speed or they have precise timing command. In addition, some trackers like precyne can have different timing for each pattern.
- And where are all the Rock/Metal/Jazz/Classic compositions made with trackers, with varying BPM and a large dynamic range?
> you can automate the BPM, like all other daws?
- Why does everything made with a tracker sounds like it has been made with a tracker?
> well… this is because you don’t realise it is made by trackers when you don’t think it sounds like one. Darude sandstorm is made with a tracker software, which it doesn’t sound like demoscene at all, and it sounds exactly like one of the trance hits during the time.
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 3694 posts since 3 Jul, 2022
Interesting!Logickin wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 6:31 pmHow do you program your pianoroll with only four notes in a way that each notes retriggers itself 3times? I guess you have just compared the strength of one software to the weakness of another, which is not a fair comparison. It is like you are asking why can’t a piano slide notes like a trombone. Trackers and daws are made for two different type of people with two different mindsets which former focuses on programming music sequences, while recording performance for the later, which imo, incomparable.WackyZoundz wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2024 1:03 am Question: How do you record a live MIDI performance in a tracker including modulation and pitchbending?
- How do you even program pitchbending in a tracker?
> With node slide commands. 1 for slide up; 2 for slide down; 3 slides to the destination note.
- How do you program swing?
> We time things based on tick speed, default on 6 which means for every row, the tracker counts 6 events before moving on to another row. We can swing by alternating the tick speed between 4 and 6 tick for every row.
- Or polyrhythms?
> Renoise and SunVox can go into high tick speed or they have precise timing command. In addition, some trackers like precyne can have different timing for each pattern.
- And where are all the Rock/Metal/Jazz/Classic compositions made with trackers, with varying BPM and a large dynamic range?
> you can automate the BPM, like all other daws?
- Why does everything made with a tracker sounds like it has been made with a tracker?
> well… this is because you don’t realise it is made by trackers when you don’t think it sounds like one. Darude sandstorm is made with a tracker software, which it doesn’t sound like demoscene at all, and it sounds exactly like one of the trance hits during the time.
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gentleclockdivider gentleclockdivider https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=203660
- KVRAF
- 6530 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent
We can easily do polyrytms in renoise when using multiple phrase sequencers or using the delay column on a track .Logickin wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 6:31 pmHow do you program your pianoroll with only four notes in a way that each notes retriggers itself 3times? I guess you have just compared the strength of one software to the weakness of another, which is not a fair comparison. It is like you are asking why can’t a piano slide notes like a trombone. Trackers and daws are made for two different type of people with two different mindsets which former focuses on programming music sequences, while recording performance for the later, which imo, incomparable.WackyZoundz wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2024 1:03 am Question: How do you record a live MIDI performance in a tracker including modulation and pitchbending?
- How do you even program pitchbending in a tracker?
> With node slide commands. 1 for slide up; 2 for slide down; 3 slides to the destination note.
- How do you program swing?
> We time things based on tick speed, default on 6 which means for every row, the tracker counts 6 events before moving on to another row. We can swing by alternating the tick speed between 4 and 6 tick for every row.
- Or polyrhythms?
> Renoise and SunVox can go into high tick speed or they have precise timing command. In addition, some trackers like precyne can have different timing for each pattern.
- And where are all the Rock/Metal/Jazz/Classic compositions made with trackers, with varying BPM and a large dynamic range?
> you can automate the BPM, like all other daws?
- Why does everything made with a tracker sounds like it has been made with a tracker?
> well… this is because you don’t realise it is made by trackers when you don’t think it sounds like one. Darude sandstorm is made with a tracker software, which it doesn’t sound like demoscene at all, and it sounds exactly like one of the trance hits during the time.
Polymeter is more difficult since it's defined by (global ) pattern length , but when the pattern(s) are not looping polymeters is easy achievable
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies
Soul calibrating ..frequencies
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- KVRist
- 31 posts since 9 Oct, 2023
10 seconds on YouTube finds:WackyZoundz wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2024 4:34 pm So still no logical argument what makes trackers as good or even better at anything than "big" DAWs. Still no example of tracker music that does not have that typical lo-fi tracker sound we all know from the demo scene, only covering a small range of genres and styles.
https://youtu.be/7axsgnQZFB8?si=Mze5wANkkFuEt7xY
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- KVRAF
- 3312 posts since 23 Nov, 2016 from a small city
CBA reading it all, but a(nother?) vote for Venetian Snares and his use of trackers.
I would've thought the difference between a "pro" and not "pro" music creation app would be the support? If your piece of software stops working, on the phone to your CAM to get it sorted out pronto.
I would've thought the difference between a "pro" and not "pro" music creation app would be the support? If your piece of software stops working, on the phone to your CAM to get it sorted out pronto.
Last edited by Bunny_boy on Thu Sep 12, 2024 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I used to be Bunnyboy many many years ago
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- KVRist
- 39 posts since 21 Feb, 2023
In what way it is limited? You are keeping on repeating the same point without even viewing other’s responses or without showing a single example, and trying to ridicule tracker softwares. I can also do the same by saying “Piñon rollz Zuks coz it haz no the feturez”.WackyZoundz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2024 2:11 pm I would like to know what makes step sequencing so great in trackers. Programming a tracker sequence is slow and unintuitive compared to the step sequencer in FL Studio (for example). Nothing wrong with nostalgia but trackers are very limited as a matter of fact, even when it comes to step sequencing itself.
Try to be a mature person and not to dodge every single argument and give concrete example for your point if you are serious.
If you were trolling, sadly, I would had to say… you did a horrible job on even being an internet troll.
Edit: I use both FL and many tracker softwares, so don’t fool me with an unconvincing point.
Edit 2: you won’t find tracker great not because of the limitations or workflow or whatsoever, but only because you have already put the “I hate tracker software in general and I don’t care other’s points, so I want to make fun of them.” kind of attitude, initially. You may live in your own world now, taking the blue pill, and believe whatever you want.
Edit 3:
To prevent you will say my reply proves your point, let me tell you about what makes trackers great:I would like to know what makes step sequencing so great in trackers.
a few moments later...
So still no logical argument what makes trackers as good...
1. The workflow is much faster and efficient when you use a computer keyboard:
Most if not all trackers have optimized for computer input. For example, most of the tracker has mapped the qwerty with its corresponding piano keys, q for C, 2 for C#, w for D and so on, along with some useful command like changing step size so you can jump with different interval without keep switching between the typing keyboard, mouse and piano keyboard. You might think this feature is insignificant, but there are a lot of computer users hate switching between device, hate to have precise motor motion on certain task or they simply don't have space for their studio set up or they travel around. For all those reasons, trackers are great choice for them.
2. Automations, and compactness
I have used FL, and I can definitely say the worst thing in FL is how the automation are managed which you can either have a good automation control which is not in the pattern, or you have to use that annoying event editor to change the velocity, and instrument properties. Even if they have the vector based automation, that feature won't save the piano roll's biggest flaw in general:
Events, notes and automation are in three separated views even though they should belong to the same note instance.
In FL, you need to change the velocity for some of the notes? You have to cherry pick each note you concerned with, and move on to the velocity view to pull the "velocity bars" thing to change it. In tracker? All you need to do is to change the edit step (can be done with a single or few hot keys) then edit the velocity column which is right next to the note column.
After that, you have automation on filter control, how to do that in FL? Again, you need to either leave the piano roll to use the automation clip, or stick with event editor by drawing your curve and hope for the best. I am not a fan of the former because I can't review the effect when I play a single pattern, while it is tedious to draw a perfect curve for the later. In tracker? Set the initial and the end point of the automation, highlight that range, and press "ctrl + I" for interpretation (or other shortcuts in other trackers), while the control are right next to the notes and velocity column.
Automation in Trackers are compact, to minimize the number of context switching in between views, which it treats a note as a single instance rather than three separate locations; thus, I find it easier to navigate how the instrument performs and how they behaves.
3. Note effects
I just want to have a simple and quick arpeggio, how to do that in FL? You either need to draw the arpeggios and repetitively pressing ctrl+b to duplicate, or you have to search for that arpeggiator option for the arpeggios. Trackers? It is just a single command, and again, it is right next to note and velocity column. All I need to do is to add a tiny, little number to the FX column (08, 00, or 0A depends on the trackers), and you have an instant arpeggios.
In addition, I used note slides, vibrato, retrigger effect all the time, which are hugely inconvenient in piano roll because they are all treated as three different things which require three different workflow. They are just three different number in trackers, so I can quickly switch the effect by replacing the number in the column.
4. Portability
I have multiple devices, an iPad, and iPhone, android tablet, and a windows laptop. Can I run FL studio or Cubase or Reaper (Not the mobile version) in my mobile phone? Of course you can! By running a remote desktop, connecting to your windows desktop. Is that a convenient solution though? Not so much because you have to rely on a reliable and fast mobile data connection which is not always available, and you have to stick with an interface that is not made for mobile devices which your finger will not have that precision to click those tiny UI.
Trackers? Most of the trackers software are cross platform or at least supporting formats that is universal to every trackers (.mod, .xm, .it). Try to imagine you can open your FL studio projects in Cubase or in Bitwig, or the Legacy Xewton Music Studio on iphone, without losing all the instrument and automation data like midi. This makes it a convenient tool for collaboration because as long as the tracker software can support the format, it can opens the files.
And the list goes on, feel free for your counter arguments.
Last edited by Logickin on Fri Sep 13, 2024 3:32 am, edited 5 times in total.
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- KVRist
- 421 posts since 23 Feb, 2023
Good Points... Well, Anybody that may be interested & doesn't suffer from 8 second goldfish attention span this is a good read... I say good read because you'll have to change CCs to English to understand... It's 45 minutes of great tracker tunes...
Not only that it's 90% Schism Tracker which I find hard to learn so I respect the work... Samples & Internal FX only folks using IT format so plenty of tricks up the sleeve...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WPu2-W43IE
For the thoroughly goldfish impaired here's something your piano rollers can't do... A single-channel impulse tracker tune 4kb-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bib_tI3kjo0
Short one in Protrekkr-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXXsZfvvgiI
Not only that it's 90% Schism Tracker which I find hard to learn so I respect the work... Samples & Internal FX only folks using IT format so plenty of tricks up the sleeve...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WPu2-W43IE
For the thoroughly goldfish impaired here's something your piano rollers can't do... A single-channel impulse tracker tune 4kb-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bib_tI3kjo0
Short one in Protrekkr-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXXsZfvvgiI
Last edited by eLawnMust on Thu Sep 12, 2024 3:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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gentleclockdivider gentleclockdivider https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=203660
- KVRAF
- 6530 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent