The bs of Pro DAWs Vs amateur DAWs

[Logickin]

Good Points... Well, Anybody that may be interested & doesn't suffer from 8 second goldfish attention span this is a good read... I say good read because you'll have to change CCs to English to understand... It's 45 minutes of great tracker tunes...

Not only that it's 90% Schism Tracker which I find hard to learn so I respect the work... Samples & Internal FX only folks using IT format so plenty of tricks up the sleeve...

Wait, WaxingAndWaning, is that you? Great to see you on KVR!

Great video to demonstrate the potential of trackers, showing that it is the fact what makes a software "professional" is not really the software itself, but the skills, the proficiency behind the composers, not to mention correct tool choice. If they choose MuseScore to write EDM or choose music tracker to record performance or create notation using audacity, they are already wrong in the first place because they misunderstood the points and purposes of the software.

Native instruments plugins are "professional" tools, but if you give them to a total newbie without any training and musical knowledge, they can turn them into "Naive Instruments" which they will sound like a toy; by contrast, a pro can write any professional music even if they use actual toys with a flawed sample to begin with (at 11:30):

https://youtu.be/wu3V5GCXx60?si=TXN_fi1vf4ZxalmR&t=685

PS: the point is, don't worry about your gears. If you have spending a long time to learn music production and composition, you can turn everything, even a toy, sounds professional. Thus, a "pro" gears doesn't really exist, but it is more like a "powerful" tools that attract the professionals.

[gentleclockdivider]

Sure sure , but why bring in that godawfull Andrew Huang into this topic ?

[Guenon]

Sure sure , but why bring in that godawfull Andrew Huang into this topic ?

Hmm. I remember being very entertained by Andrew's music already a bit over twenty years ago. Found the site and loved his humor and range of musicianship. Those songs (and there was constantly more and more of them) were so well thought out, and witty, and often so successfully hilarious, we used to gather with friends at the uni, and listen to them and have a good time. "Songs To Wear Pants To", they were called . This was before Youtube even existed, I hadn't yet gone professional in music and sound design myself, and I hadn't seen Andrew on a video even, hah. But yeah, guy grew up in the 80s and 90s already accumulating a crap ton of music chops in a variety of genres, and then put them to good use.

Like with any public persona of someone who decides to showcase talent in that manner, instead of producing in the shadows (lol), it seems to be a given there are also haters, like Espen Kraft pointed out in a recent video, too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZq2x6lRZbY

[koalaboy]

"Professional" software, is basically anything that is "Industry standard". That's it.

It's the (most commonly) used software by the 'profession'. That *used* to mean hugely expensive as well, which meant it wasn't really accessible to any non-professionals, but of course that all changed over the last decade. It's another reason AI poses such a threat to many industries.

"Professional" software often brings with it a level of support and catering for the needs of the 'profession' vs creative decisions. In the tech industry, it's usually "Community (Free)", "Personal (low cost)", "Professional (higher cost)", "Enterprise (If you have to ask...)", and the differences are usually features that each higher level needs but not generally the 'productive' aspects.

It's why Pro-Tools is "Professional" and FLStudio is not. It's why orchestral/media composers tend to move more towards Cubase, rather than Ableton live, as they are probably working with other professionals and need to exchange files, etc.

One is not necessarily better than the other - it's about a 'common ground' within the profession.

It's not about whether the software *is* professional... it's about whether it's 'aimed' (marketed) towards professionals, and that usually is just about money, and nothing else.

[RirtualViot2013]

"Professional" software, is basically anything that is "Industry standard". That's it.

It's the (most commonly) used software by the 'profession'. That *used* to mean hugely expensive as well, which meant it wasn't really accessible to any non-professionals, but of course that all changed over the last decade. It's another reason AI poses such a threat to many industries.

"Professional" software often brings with it a level of support and catering for the needs of the 'profession' vs creative decisions. In the tech industry, it's usually "Community (Free)", "Personal (low cost)", "Professional (higher cost)", "Enterprise (If you have to ask...)", and the differences are usually features that each higher level needs but not generally the 'productive' aspects.

It's why Pro-Tools is "Professional" and FLStudio is not. It's why orchestral/media composers tend to move more towards Cubase, rather than Ableton live, as they are probably working with other professionals and need to exchange files, etc.

One is not necessarily better than the other - it's about a 'common ground' within the profession.

It's not about whether the software *is* professional... it's about whether it's 'aimed' (marketed) towards professionals, and that usually is just about money, and nothing else.

There is one thing I will have to disagree with.
Money is one thing for professionals, time is another.
The big advantage of DAWs that are marketed as professional is that they usually have built-in time savers. For example, Cubase has an auto-alignment tool for audio as well as VariAudio 3, which is a direct alternative for those who cannot afford melodyne or think that it is too complicated to use.
Pro Tools is marketed as professional because it has been historically used in professional studios and Avid creates hardware specifically for the intention to be used with Pro Tools and Pro Tools only.
There are some downsides though, even as professionals.
For example, in Pro Tools, after deciding for the sample rate of a Project, you cannot change it, and it is the only DAW I know that is this restrictive with it's sample rate.

[gentleclockdivider]

Sure sure , but why bring in that godawfull Andrew Huang into this topic ?

Hmm. I remember being very entertained by Andrew's music already a bit over twenty years ago. Found the site and loved his humor and range of musicianship. Those songs (and there was constantly more and more of them) were so well thought out, and witty, and often so successfully hilarious, we used to gather with friends at the uni, and listen to them and have a good time. "Songs To Wear Pants To", they were called . This was before Youtube even existed, I hadn't yet gone professional in music and sound design myself, and I hadn't seen Andrew on a video even, hah. But yeah, guy grew up in the 80s and 90s already accumulating a crap ton of music chops in a variety of genres, and then put them to good use.

Like with any public persona of someone who decides to showcase talent in that manner, instead of producing in the shadows (lol), it seems to be a given there are also haters, like Espen Kraft pointed out in a recent video, too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZq2x6lRZbY

Strawman argument ,it has nothing to do with talent -music , perhaps a bit of self projection from your side ?
It has everything to do with these influencer persona's that grab every opportunity to sell out and endorse stuff .
You open facebook , and you're bombarded with adds endorsed by venus fluff or Andrew Chang etc...
Espen Otoh is cool, down to earth and doesn't act like a hyperkinetic sugaroverdosed rabbit .

[Guenon]

Strawman argument ,it has nothing to do with talent -music , perhaps a bit of self projection from your side ?

The reason Andrew was brought up in this thread is because of his musical talent and how he demonstrates using ad hoc tools in making music; that's what you asked, basically

It has a lot to do with talent, skill, and whatnot; without those in place, people like Andrew or Espen wouldn't be able to do what they do, in their public personas like that, and be involved in the projects they are. I'm sure there's self projection on my side, yes, as I wouldn't be able to be involved in the projects I am, without my musical and techincal skill, either. However, note that I said, "with any public persona of someone who decides to showcase talent in that manner [...] it seems to be a given there are also haters" - no more, no less.

My point was the negativity that always comes with public exposure like that - and maybe noticing when engaging in such bashing activities yourself.

It has everything to do with these influencer persona's that grab every opportunity to sell out and endorse stuff

Thanks for clarifying what rubs you the wrong way in him. As you implied you are one for quality arguments, also note that the "grab every opportunity to sell out and endorse stuff" is also not actually truthful. It's just so easy to exaggerate the behaviors of others that rub you the wrong way. But yeah, I believe that really is the impression you have, and that makes your reaction more understandable. Maybe a bit of self projection from your side?

[Jac459]

Strawman argument ,it has nothing to do with talent -music , perhaps a bit of self projection from your side ?

The reason Andrew was brought up in this thread is because of his musical talent and how he demonstrates using ad hoc tools in making music; that's what you asked, basically

It has a lot to do with talent, skill, and whatnot; without those in place, people like Andrew or Espen wouldn't be able to do what they do, in their public personas like that, and be involved in the projects they are. I'm sure there's self projection on my side, yes, as I wouldn't be able to be involved in the projects I am, without my musical and techincal skill, either. However, note that I said, "with any public persona of someone who decides to showcase talent in that manner [...] it seems to be a given there are also haters" - no more, no less.

My point was the negativity that always comes with public exposure like that - and maybe noticing when engaging in such bashing activities yourself.

It has everything to do with these influencer persona's that grab every opportunity to sell out and endorse stuff

Thanks for clarifying what rubs you the wrong way in him. As you implied you are one for quality arguments, also note that the "grab every opportunity to sell out and endorse stuff" is also not actually truthful. It's just so easy to exaggerate the behaviors of others that rub you the wrong way. But yeah, I believe that really is the impression you have, and that makes your reaction more understandable. Maybe a bit of self projection from your side?

I like your argument and your reasoning... But I have to agree on the fact that Andrew has a very irritating "public face". That doesn't mean anything about him personally and his talent, but to me the personae he has created on-line is everything but appealing.

Venus T is way better for me in this area even if he has recently taken a philosophical turn recently in his content that doesn't interest me the slightest.

[VariKusBrainZ]

Another Andrew disliker here, glad im not the only one as i cant rationalise it. Just has a face to hate i guess

[eLawnMust]

Perhaps there needs to be a 'Chang' from the focus on 'Huang'... More light-hearted-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0INVtf-3WM

[Jac459]

Perhaps there needs to be a 'Chang' from the focus on 'Huang'... More light-hearted-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0INVtf-3WM

Sorry but this one is essentially sample sequencing. I prefer tracks full of events.

https://youtu.be/sTdd2A6mbCM?si=Nq6o4VILUgz15-60

[legendCNCD]

Perhaps there needs to be a 'Chang' from the focus on 'Huang'... More light-hearted-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0INVtf-3WM

Sorry but this one is essentially sample sequencing. I prefer tracks full of events.

https://youtu.be/sTdd2A6mbCM?si=Nq6o4VILUgz15-60

And the demo with the tune
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2r7-ygXOzo

[Logickin]

Perhaps there needs to be a 'Chang' from the focus on 'Huang'... More light-hearted-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0INVtf-3WM

Sorry but this one is essentially sample sequencing. I prefer tracks full of events.

https://youtu.be/sTdd2A6mbCM?si=Nq6o4VILUgz15-60

Haha, I prefer No Samples. jk
These tracks are made with no or very little samples because it has built-in modular synths.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGPhh8NMsI4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx1BCE0ykpw

Tbh, I wish to see more music trackers to have some form of built-in non-chiptune synths other than just a sampler.

[BertKoor]

And the demo with the tune
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2r7-ygXOzo

I had that demo on a 1.44mb floppy disk. The video is much larger

[Jac459]

Perhaps there needs to be a 'Chang' from the focus on 'Huang'... More light-hearted-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0INVtf-3WM

Sorry but this one is essentially sample sequencing. I prefer tracks full of events.

https://youtu.be/sTdd2A6mbCM?si=Nq6o4VILUgz15-60

Haha, I prefer No Samples. jk
These tracks are made with no or very little samples because it has built-in modular synths.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGPhh8NMsI4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx1BCE0ykpw

Tbh, I wish to see more music trackers to have some form of built-in non-chiptube synths other than just a sampler.

Oh true. Forgot now trackers have synths.