T2: Anyone else getting that sinking feeling?

[Beno]

Everyone breathe. In ... Out ... In ... Out.

Ben

[unknown user]

The program hasn't been released yet, and the list still says "more to come". If it was done, they would have announced, "Ta Da, and there you have it!".

Sorry, but apparently you have no clue about how software releases work in the real world. Believe me, it's just as I described it in my OP, it's been frozen since early December. There are no more features, they are just stringing along all you breathless fanboys in hopes of milking the "buzz" factor.

It's common knowledge that Jules wrote Tracktion with his own needs in mind, which were the needs of an audio-recording musician.

When Jules gives me software for free I'll be concerned about his needs, until then Mackie has to meet MY needs, because I paid them MY money. Did you miss out on the fact that since early last year it is a Mackie product, it is Mackie dollars paying the bills, and it is Mackie that decides the features and schedule. Trust me, Jules has little or no say in the matter.

I'm quite far from being a snob

Not nearly as far as you think!

No, far from being a snob, I'm more a guy who's getting sick, tired, and frustrated with all the pre-emptive negativity. Wait until the f**king thing's released before you start raining on people's parades.

Well, yes, your reasoning is sick, and your arguments are weak and tired....no wonder you're frustrated. You really need to focus on the discussion points I am making and stop making personal attacks.

I'm not whining and I'm not being negative. I am saying that instead of the focus on nonessential (even trivial) features, and spouting the fanfare and hype for Mackie hardware support (which most T users will never own) Mackie needs to deliver a truly awesome MIDI implementation or I will not be a T2 customer.

Now back to the OP. Mark my words, there will be no more significant T2 features announced. If I am wrong and more features are announced, they will be a) actually bugs marketed as features, b) features that have lots of bugs because they were added hastily at the last minute and thus were not fully tested, or c) features that nobody really wants or needs, such as support for Mackie hardware.

bithead

[Lunch Money]

Fine, your words have been marked. You didn't leave a provision for what happens if you're wrong...? Or will you just quietly hope that nobody notices?

Further-- how do you get off assessing my personality like that, you asshole? You don't even know me or the things I go through on a daily basis for other people. So f**k off.

"Fanboy"? I don't even know what the hell that means. Any point I ever make is made with only one objective: be reasonable. If the feature list falls short, I'll be the first person to NOT buy T2 and continue happily using T1.

Greg

[cbit]

Now back to the OP. Mark my words, there will be no more significant T2 features announced. If I am wrong and more features are announced, they will be a) actually bugs marketed as features, b) features that have lots of bugs because they were added hastily at the last minute and thus were not fully tested, or c) features that nobody really wants or needs, such as support for Mackie hardware

why? you dont think its possible that they are saving the best (as far as t1 users are concerned) for last? eg: you don't think the midi section has been overhauled?

[TheWall]

bithead, relax a little bit. Personally I really think the info released so far are based on the way Mackie ppl used to do in the hardware world. IF that presumption is right, they would tend to emphasize the features they think would be more valuable. And those ARE valuable to Mackie and their usual customer group without any doubt.

I agree with Greg that it'd be unconceivable if there's no other enhancement to the features that have been requested repeatedly here. It can't be.

[Gwydi]

And those ARE valuable to Mackie and their usual customer group without any doubt.

Excellent point. Yes, of course their marketing would be primarily directed at Mackie customers and not Tracktion customers. I had not considered it from that point of view.

I just hope there's something in it for us wannabes too

G.

[TheWall]

I just hope there's something in it for us wannabes too

Somehow I guess we may be even lower than wannabes. A true wannabe would get thrilled over terms like 64bit/192khz etc, just like the true pros...

[unknown user]

Fine, your words have been marked. You didn't leave a provision for what happens if you're wrong...? Or will you just quietly hope that nobody notices?

I'm not a clairvoyant, I didn't predict the outcome. My plan is to buy T2, if and only if, etc.... So the answer to your question would be "I will buy T2 if it has an excellent MIDI implementation".

Further-- how do you get off assessing my personality like that, you asshole? You don't even know me or the things I go through on a daily basis for other people. So f**k off.

Personality assessment? You rave about T and call me filthy names because I'm skeptical about T2 and Mackie marketing. Anyone on here care to assess this individual's personality? The terms paranoiac and delusional schizophrenic come to mind, but then, I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist (and what's more I'm not real clear on the difference )

"Fanboy"? I don't even know what the hell that means.

Generally, a person with an unrealistic and unhealthy emotional attachment to a celebrity, or in this case, software.

Any point I ever make is made with only one objective: be reasonable. If the feature list falls short, I'll be the first person to NOT buy T2 and continue happily using T1.

Anyone on here think the above rants and personal attacks are examples of "being reasonable"? I, for one, do not.

bithead

[Lunch Money]

I'm not good at leaving well enough alone.

The program hasn't been released yet, and the list still says "more to come". If it was done, they would have announced, "Ta Da, and there you have it!".

Sorry, but apparently you have no clue about how software releases work in the real world. Believe me, it's just as I described it in my OP, it's been frozen since early December. There are no more features, they are just stringing along all you breathless fanboys in hopes of milking the "buzz" factor.

I have no clue? Believe you? Why SHOULD I? I fail to see where you've become an expert, and frankly your argument is very weak. Furthermore, you start throwing out unfounded insults to people you don't even know, just because they happen to have a differing opinion. Get your head checked.

It's common knowledge that Jules wrote Tracktion with his own needs in mind, which were the needs of an audio-recording musician.

When Jules gives me software for free I'll be concerned about his needs, until then Mackie has to meet MY needs, because I paid them MY money. Did you miss out on the fact that since early last year it is a Mackie product, it is Mackie dollars paying the bills, and it is Mackie that decides the features and schedule. Trust me, Jules has little or no say in the matter.

You missed the point, AND you're wrong about something, all at the same time. The point you missed wasn't how much control Jules may or may not have right now. The point was that Tracktion was originally written for himself, ie. in a way that he felt would be useful for himself and people like him. That's it. Anything else you're bringing to this point is irrelevant. The part you're wrong about is what you purchased. Mackie doesn't owe you shit. You had the opportunity to ask people what they thought, to browse the feature set, and most importantly to demo the software before you bought. If you bought it, you bought it knowing what the feature set was. And again with the "trust me" bit, as if you actually KNOW something? Trust me, you don't know shit.

I'm quite far from being a snob

Not nearly as far as you think!

Oh, I'm very aware of where I stand in the snob scale of life. I certainly don't need a complete stranger on an anonymous internet forum to make that assessment for me. I don't know where the hell you think you get off judging people about whom you know nothing.

No, far from being a snob, I'm more a guy who's getting sick, tired, and frustrated with all the pre-emptive negativity. Wait until the f**king thing's released before you start raining on people's parades.

Well, yes, your reasoning is sick, and your arguments are weak and tired....no wonder you're frustrated. You really need to focus on the discussion points I am making and stop making personal attacks.

My reasoning is more sound then yours (hence why you seem to think I'm a snob), my arguments are only as weak or as tired as your own since neither side is founded in any sort of fact. However, what makes my points a little bit stronger is that my entire argument is "We don't even know yet, so calm down," whereas yours is "Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. You'll see that T2 will suck." Neither side is very compelling but at least one of them doesn't make blind assumption and pass it off as fact or inside knowledge.

I'm not whining and I'm not being negative. I am saying that instead of the focus on nonessential (even trivial) features, and spouting the fanfare and hype for Mackie hardware support (which most T users will never own) Mackie needs to deliver a truly awesome MIDI implementation or I will not be a T2 customer.

Whether you're whining or not is entirely subjective. But the negativity of your posts is hard to miss. I actually agree that there's a lot of focus on features that are not essential for me (though I fear you're making the mistake of transferring your personal needs onto the entire client base). I don't recall there BEING any fanfare, especially not fanfare that's been "spouted". Nor is a 1-sentence statement of hardware support for Mackie hardware "hype". It's... er... just one bloody sentence, dude.

You have every right to not be a T2 customer if it doesn't meet your needs. But... who gives a f**k?

Now back to the OP. Mark my words, there will be no more significant T2 features announced. If I am wrong and more features are announced, they will be a) actually bugs marketed as features, b) features that have lots of bugs because they were added hastily at the last minute and thus were not fully tested, or c) features that nobody really wants or needs, such as support for Mackie hardware.

See previous post.

[Lunch Money]

Tell you what-- quote me some of my unreasonable rants and personal attacks back to me. I'm curious to find out what you think I'm frothing at the mouth about...? Any personal attacks (ie. calling you "asshole") only came after you started your own.

Speaking of paranoid and delusional....

[Mr. Tingle]

Tell you what-- quote me some of my unreasonable rants and personal attacks back to me. I'm curious to find out what you think I'm frothing at the mouth about...? Any personal attacks (ie. calling you "asshole") only came after you started your own.

Speaking of paranoid and delusional....

Your opinions seem perfectly reasonable to me.

[unknown user]

Lunch Money, you need to relax. Really all I'm saying is I will buy T2 if and only if it has a great MIDI implementation. So far it doesn't look like it will, IMO. Negative? No. Realistic? Yep. Sure hope Mackie exceeds my expectations!

And TBPH I do harbor some contempt for software fanboys (which doesn't include you necessarily, but if the shoe fits...) who insist the next release will be better than sliced bread, despite evidence or lack thereof.

BTW actually I'm a degreed engineer with over 15 years' experience in developing commercial embedded systems. I currently work as a software engineer, developing talking Pocket PCs for blind people and scanning/reading machines. So yeah, I am a software expert, and therefore I do "know shit".

[haydxn]

bithead, you're not 'cynical', you're downright fatalistic and plain misguided.

mackie aren't just paying the wage and making jules have little or no say in things- mackie are dealing with marketing and publishing, yes. but it is jules' product, they understand that and they're not f**king with him. of course they're ensuring that it is mackie compatible, seeing as its being coupled with mackie products, but it's still Tracktion.

you have some opinions that in some ways may be applicable to some areas of software development. but i think you're just being a complete asshole! you have some seriously f'd up opinions in your posts. i personally find it quite easy to believe beno or the T site when it says there is more to come, and i don't have to suffer from the paralysing paranoia that i'm being hoodwinked. yes, those features aren't terribly exciting... it's obvious that there is more to come.

quit being a jackass, and leave lunchmoney, who has so far had perhaps the most realistic and valid points yet, alone.

twat. [of course if you can prove yourself not to be so i'll take that statement back! good luck!]

[Warmonger]

The more people like TheWall say "but wait theres more", the more I tend to think: T2, what a f**king disappointment.

bithead

If that's not being negative, then I don't know what is.

[Lunch Money]

Lunch Money, you need to relax. Really all I'm saying is I will buy T2 if and only if it has a great MIDI implementation. So far it doesn't look like it will, IMO. Negative? No. Realistic? Yep. Sure hope Mackie exceeds my expectations!

Oh, I'm still relatively relaxed, though I can't deny that it makes my blood boil when people try to TELL me what kind of person I am, such as you did with the "snob" and "fanboy" comments, which came long before any sort of retaliatory remarks back in your direction. In general, I'm quite a relaxed and happy guy.

And TBPH I do harbor some contempt for software fanboys (which doesn't include you necessarily, but if the shoe fits...) who insist the next release will be better than sliced bread, despite evidence or lack thereof.

Well, the shoe doesn't fit, though you certainly tried your best to be diplomatic in implying that it does. I challenge you to find one post, not just in this thread but in the entire KvR database in which I ever made an unquestioned statement that T2 *IS* going to be great. When in a positive mood, you might find me saying, "I'm quite happy with T1 as it is, but I'm confident in Jules."

BTW actually I'm a degreed engineer with over 15 years' experience in developing commercial embedded systems. I currently work as a software engineer, developing talking Pocket PCs for blind people and scanning/reading machines. So yeah, I am a software expert, and therefore I do "know shit".

Unfortunately, though, you missed my point... knowing how to develop software doesn't give you an edge in marketing... but more to the point, it doesn't give you inside information on Raw Materials' or Mackie's plans for Tracktion, which was MY point. The "you don't know shit" simply meant that you're making claims about a company with whom you have no affiliation and about whose inner workings you have no direct knowledge.

So, just for the sake of clarity: "You don't know shit about the feature list until it's been announced as complete."