Bitwig Mixer Precision?

[AdvancedFollower]

I'm currently demoing Bitwig and I'm finding the Mixer to be especially confusing.

After 30 minutes of Googling I found out how to resize the faders to make them taller (you have to hunt for an invisible line to the left in the mixer view and then remove the bottom device panel), since they're the size of Roland Boutique faders by default. They still don't get quite as tall as I'd like, but it's acceptable.

Next problem, the precision seems to be very low. You can only make adjustments in .1 dB? Most other DAWs let you adjust in increments of at least .01 dB. Even if you type in a value like -6.55 dB, it seems to round it off to -6.6. Does Bitwig use a lower precision mixing engine?

[BobDog]

I'd love to be proved wrong but you can have small, smaller or very small. 0.1 Db as far as I know is what you get.

You can get longer throw faders in the track view, they actually work for me for 0.1 without using shift.

[Funk Dracula]

Next problem, the precision seems to be very low. You can only make adjustments in .1 dB? Most other DAWs let you adjust in increments of at least .01 dB. Even if you type in a value like -6.55 dB, it seems to round it off to -6.6. Does Bitwig use a lower precision mixing engine?

Firstly, let's get out of the way how objectively imperceivable even .1 dB is to a human. You have absolutely been eating placebo sugar pills all this time if you've been moving mixer faders in other DAWs by .01 dB and telling yourself "I hear and perceive an object difference in amplitude." If you swear on a Bible that you are hearing a difference when adjusting amplitude between -6.55 dB and -6.6 dB like in your example, that has got to be just something your amplifier/monitoring system is doing that is not ideal.

Nor does that miniscule amount of .01 dB amplitude measurement and adjustment really even come into play for gain staging regarding the strength of a signal entering a plug-in.

Now things like envelopes, or parameters on a plug-in, sure, how things are set up algorithmically on those faders/knobs with fine fine increments could make a difference. Absolutely. I can think especially envelopes on some synths as an example. But keep in mind, in these cases this is really just the algorithm, modeling, and what the developer is giving us for adjustments and behaviors. All that stuff is entirely a product of the developer and what they implement.

When it comes to the increments/throw the Bitwig mixer faders offer, you're good to go. However, whether or not they are aesthetically pleasing to you is another thing. haha

Cheers

[Muzik4Life]

Next problem, the precision seems to be very low. You can only make adjustments in .1 dB? Most other DAWs let you adjust in increments of at least .01 dB. Even if you type in a value like -6.55 dB, it seems to round it off to -6.6. Does Bitwig use a lower precision mixing engine?

Firstly, let's get out of the way how objectively imperceivable even .1 dB is to a human. You have absolutely been eating placebo sugar pills all this time if you've been moving mixer faders in other DAWs by .01 dB and telling yourself "I hear and perceive an object difference in amplitude." If you swear on a Bible that you are hearing a difference when adjusting amplitude between -6.55 dB and -6.6 dB like in your example, that has got to be just something your amplifier/monitoring system is doing that is not ideal.

Nailed it!

[nowiamone]

Next problem, the precision seems to be very low. You can only make adjustments in .1 dB? Most other DAWs let you adjust in increments of at least .01 dB. Even if you type in a value like -6.55 dB, it seems to round it off to -6.6. Does Bitwig use a lower precision mixing engine?

Firstly, let's get out of the way how objectively imperceivable even .1 dB is to a human. You have absolutely been eating placebo sugar pills all this time if you've been moving mixer faders in other DAWs by .01 dB and telling yourself "I hear and perceive an object difference in amplitude." If you swear on a Bible that you are hearing a difference when adjusting amplitude between -6.55 dB and -6.6 dB like in your example, that has got to be just something your amplifier/monitoring system is doing that is not ideal.

Nor does that miniscule amount of .01 dB amplitude measurement and adjustment really even come into play for gain staging regarding the strength of a signal entering a plug-in.

Now things like envelopes, or parameters on a plug-in, sure, how things are set up algorithmically on those faders/knobs with fine fine increments could make a difference. Absolutely. I can think especially envelopes on some synths as an example. But keep in mind, in these cases this is really just the algorithm, modeling, and what the developer is giving us for adjustments and behaviors. All that stuff is entirely a product of the developer and what they implement.

When it comes to the increments/throw the Bitwig mixer faders offer, you're good to go. However, whether or not they are aesthetically pleasing to you is another thing. haha

Cheers

Agreed!

The main problem which comes to mind when thinking about Bitwig and controlling Volume is not about whether Fader steps are more detailed than 0.1 db, but about the automatic smoothing of automation, which makes automation lanes for volume behave contra-intuitive. Imho, for volume(fader) automation, there should be a "smoothing in ms" field in the preferences, so automation doesnt look like this: [the picture also features the workaround, a button modulator for instant mute... but that's just annoying to set up each time, compared to having it out of the box]

j0NjuQs.png