Soundtoys Plugins still not resizable?!?! "there are no plans currently to implement resizable GUIs for our plug-ins"

[martinjuenke]

It's abandonware, even when the fans are arguing about it.
That simple.

No. They released SuperPlate de the last year, and they are working on something new.
On the 5.4.3 they improved the cpu Superplate by 40%

It's far from an abandonware

As I said: the fans argue about that.

[jamcat]

Soundtoys were ported to VST3 and Apple Silicon, so I wouldn't call them abandonware.
But they're not exactly burning with ambition in recent years, either.

[sqigls]

...clearly not really "into it"

when Superplate was released i thought it might be a Soundtoys revival.
I was hanging out till payday to upgrade, but they promptly increased the upgrade price from $39 to $79, during a $49 Superplate sale! First world problems, but as a long time customer - just too many reasons to not support this company anymore.

[Lerian]

Man, that’s one underworked Dev team, isn’t it?

If there's even a dev team. Feels like some dudes having full time jobs while making these plugins for fun. Or the original dev left the company. I mean, its been 15 years with the same products (10 years in version 5). Or maybe despite the hype, business not going that well.

[drsyncenstein]

Soundtoys are ex-eventide developers. Developed software for hardware, then moved to plugins.
Eventide took a really really long time to port their plugins from old school pro tools formats to vst3. Some are yet to be ported or never will be. Plugz where pretty expensive then, so they could afford it. And money still comes in from the hardware side.
Soundtoys build up a portfolio that's become proven technology in probably every large studio. While they build up their product range they might have focused too much on the dsp\audio quality and less on keeping the rest modern. It's kinda the same issue like with Waves gui's.
If some devs got too old or documented poorly, they have a hell of a job to rebuild all that and make a modern gui. And there is much more competition, so less money to be made. I guess there is still a market for them, because in the end it's not that expensive if it's a tool for your dayjob. And you don't pay shit like waves wup. They'll probably get there sometime, but it could be many more years. Or they get bought by something like NI.

[Lerian]

Knowing a thing or two about developing apps, implementing a new UI is half a day's job for a good coder, assuming the design is already made by a dedicated designer. Let's say a week, why not - a month even. If there was a dev at soundtoys, should have been done it by now. But I'm afraid something is indeed fishy in there.

[zvenx]

I am not sure where you getting this half day job from, but I beta test for quite a few developers who had to implement a new UI and none of them, not even the quickest ones do it in such a short time...
reskinning yes, but implementing a new UI?
Definitely not.
rsp

[revvy]

Take it with a pinch of salt.

[Lerian]

I am not sure where you getting this half day job from, but I beta test for quite a few developers who had to implement a new UI and none of them, not even the quickest ones do it in such a short time...
reskinning yes, but implementing a new UI?
Definitely not.
rsp

I get this from actually designing and implementing GUIs for a living, and working with coders on a daily basis. If none of those you beta test for did it, it doesn't mean it can't be done. It only means that they take their time. Also, as I previously said, its only the implementing part, as the design/ux can take a while. It needs testing > redesign > testing > redesign and so on. But to implement scaled versions of the same UI? Basically one day for a good motivated coder who knows the code, but let's say a month tops. Not years.

But yeah, some need to justify asking those $100+ prices for a plugin, when a full analog synth is priced $250. And the full version of FL Studio, with all the plugins, sells for $300 with lifetime updates. Looks like you guys got used to being robed and now you're defending the robbers.

[zvenx]

Do you know of any music software developer who has?
rsp

[mothra]

And the full version of FL Studio, with all the plugins, sells for $300 with lifetime updates. Looks like you guys got used to being robed and now you're defending the robbers.

I mean FL might as well charge $3000 because no one pays for it as it is, not sure how it compares to Soundtoys though.

[idoru97214]

I sold my sound toys complete package about 5 years ago.

I have missed it ---- never

It's not abandonware (though it is neglectedware), but it's also not at all competitive. It just isn't.

[Lerian]

And the full version of FL Studio, with all the plugins, sells for $300 with lifetime updates. Looks like you guys got used to being robed and now you're defending the robbers.

I mean FL might as well charge $3000 because no one pays for it as it is, not sure how it compares to Soundtoys though.

Actually most of FL users get the producer or all plugins versions ($150 / $300) and have everything you need to make top quality sounding music. And the DAW is insanely fast, and the interface is vector based - so you can zoom and change any colors while looking crisp.

FL stock plugins can go where soundtoys plugins can't even dream of going. And then there's patcher, that allows you to connect anything to anything, in any combination, which makes FL one of the best modular platforms out there.

[drsyncenstein]

I am not sure where you getting this half day job from, but I beta test for quite a few developers who had to implement a new UI and none of them, not even the quickest ones do it in such a short time...
reskinning yes, but implementing a new UI?
Definitely not.
rsp

I get this from actually designing and implementing GUIs for a living, and working with coders on a daily basis. If none of those you beta test for did it, it doesn't mean it can't be done. It only means that they take their time. Also, as I previously said, its only the implementing part, as the design/ux can take a while. It needs testing > redesign > testing > redesign and so on. But to implement scaled versions of the same UI? Basically one day for a good motivated coder who knows the code, but let's say a month tops. Not years.

But yeah, some need to justify asking those $100+ prices for a plugin, when a full analog synth is priced $250. And the full version of FL Studio, with all the plugins, sells for $300 with lifetime updates. Looks like you guys got used to being robed and now you're defending the robbers.

Giving it a larger bitmap is the easy way. Yet we all can see how Waves struggles with that. While Waves is a larger company.

The real question is how difficult it is to do that for a twenty year old plugin, built by someone who retired long ago, who did it all by himself, perhaps in an oldschool language or development environment that reached eond of life and that has been patched up multiple times to be able to work in constantly updating daws and operating systems. Technical debt is a real thing in IT.

The analogy with analog synths is pretty bad. Only behringer makes them for that money. With cheap ass components, from proven designs from others, produced in large quantity, built in low cost labor factories. As long as we don't know how may soundtoys sells and what costs they have for that, you can't say anything about it.
Lot's of pricing is robbery, we call that the free market.

[Lerian]

The real question is how difficult it is to do that for a twenty year old plugin, built by someone who retired long ago, who did it all by himself, perhaps in an oldschool language or development environment that reached eond of life and that has been patched up multiple times to be able to work in constantly updating daws and operating systems. Technical debt is a real thing in IT.

Come on man, there's nothing even remotely close to technical debt in here. Even if you build a complete wrapper that keeps the actual interface hidden while the new controls send data (or even cc messages if they lazy) to the old plugin, it won't take more than a month. I can build the damn thing in VCV Rack using mindmeld patchmaster, or in FL studio patcher, or a JS plugin in reaper that controls any of the soundtoys plugin, in an afternoon, tops. And I'm not a coder. Only "if i move this knob, send data/cc to that control". Its that easy. Nothing to do with technical debt.

PS: if you're familiar with SonicCharge, their plugins are also quite old, but they are constantly updated and new features are added all the time. I have them all and I love them. And its just one guy - Jonathan - who made them, updated them, does user suport, and everything else. So its just a matter of respecting your business and your customers. Period.