Black Friday Sale?
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- KVRAF
- 13862 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
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- KVRer
- 2 posts since 28 Aug, 2019
Hi Jo, will there be one this year? I'm gunning for the Lifetime Upgrade license as am really my time with Mulab. Really brings something different to the party. Thanks for all your efforts 
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- KVRAF
- 13862 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
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- KVRAF
- 3148 posts since 28 Mar, 2008 from a Galaxy S7 far far away
Wow! MFL is already cheaper than buying separately and way too cheap for what you get! Seems an odd move!
Are you deliberately trying to move everyone to MFL?
Are you deliberately trying to move everyone to MFL?
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- KVRAF
- 13862 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
Euh, isn't it logical that a direct MuLab For Life is cheaper than M9 + MFL Upgrade?
Or how do you mean?
It's a crowded market.and way too cheap for what you get!
Why?Seems an odd move!
Goal is to extend the userbase. That's best for everyone.Are you deliberately trying to move everyone to MFL?
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- KVRAF
- 3148 posts since 28 Mar, 2008 from a Galaxy S7 far far away
No. As MFL is the better deal, it should cost more. No one will purchase the standard dual package when you can get both cheaper AND never have to pay again!
I understand the market is crowded, but personally, I think the MFL should be around 30 to 40 euros more than the dual package.
I say odd move because you may extend the user base, but will receive no income. If all your users purchase a MFL license, how do you earn anything? I think you would likely do better offering cheaper products.
The only real competition at this price is reaper, isn't it? I don't keep up with other daws so maybe they offer cheap cut down versions? Due to reapers, and if others, large dev team and resources, a lone dev has little chance of keeping up. Don't get me wrong, you've made something none of the others have. A portable, easy to use, and still a powerful workstation. But as you yourself have stated, you are limited in this way. I have no idea what the answer is, I wish I did. I do know that giving away cheap lifetime licenses isn't going to do you any favours, not in the long run.
Five years ago, I bought XYplorer lifetime license. Haven't paid anything since never will. Think it cost €90? If I bought a standard license, at the time, I would've paid €70,. plus paying for yearly upgrades, not sure, but think they're discounted. See how much I've saved? If he offered the lifetime licence cheaper than the standard one, what would you buy? Stands to reason that if you get a better deal, you pay more.
Sorry, I genuinely am only trying to help and offer some advice how I see it. I don't believe my opinions are wrong, or I obviously wouldn't say it.
I understand the market is crowded, but personally, I think the MFL should be around 30 to 40 euros more than the dual package.
I say odd move because you may extend the user base, but will receive no income. If all your users purchase a MFL license, how do you earn anything? I think you would likely do better offering cheaper products.
The only real competition at this price is reaper, isn't it? I don't keep up with other daws so maybe they offer cheap cut down versions? Due to reapers, and if others, large dev team and resources, a lone dev has little chance of keeping up. Don't get me wrong, you've made something none of the others have. A portable, easy to use, and still a powerful workstation. But as you yourself have stated, you are limited in this way. I have no idea what the answer is, I wish I did. I do know that giving away cheap lifetime licenses isn't going to do you any favours, not in the long run.
Five years ago, I bought XYplorer lifetime license. Haven't paid anything since never will. Think it cost €90? If I bought a standard license, at the time, I would've paid €70,. plus paying for yearly upgrades, not sure, but think they're discounted. See how much I've saved? If he offered the lifetime licence cheaper than the standard one, what would you buy? Stands to reason that if you get a better deal, you pay more.
Sorry, I genuinely am only trying to help and offer some advice how I see it. I don't believe my opinions are wrong, or I obviously wouldn't say it.
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- KVRian
- 760 posts since 26 Sep, 2007
How do you "know"? This model worked well for FL Studio. Growing the user base and keeping those users indefinitely is incredibly valuable – and the pool of potential customers is always going to be bigger than that of existing users who could be "milked" for updates.sl23 wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2024 8:25 amI do know that giving away cheap lifetime licenses isn't going to do you any favours, not in the long run.
It's also an enticing offer for people like me who are not using MuLab heavily but are following its development and just want to dip in every now and then.
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- KVRAF
- 3148 posts since 28 Mar, 2008 from a Galaxy S7 far far away
I don't know hence why I stated it's my opinion.
MuLab has been around for what, 20 odd years? Anyone heavily interested in music production will likely know of this site and of MuLab. I followed it from the days of luna but didn't purchase until MuLab 3/4.
I get what you're saying but that's a very romantic attitude. Potential is highly uncertain and never means definite. But yes if there is a steady stream, even if its small, of new customers that's good.
Depends what people want out of their daw. With respect Jo has admitted and also has a dedicated sticky regarding requests stating he can't do it all.
I don't see MuLab becoming like reaper. I don't mean as a daw, but the whole way it is developed. Team of devs, finances, etc. Not because I'm looking negatively, but realistically, MuLab doesn't cater for or appeal to the higher end of the market. I have no idea why, I'm not in that business.
I'm just giving an opinion for Jo to take on board and be aware of. Not a do what I say cos I'm right, cos I'm not right. But it is a VERY valid point to take into account.
Flstudio made it work as they are a bigger company. They have the resources to do so. Doesn't mean it will work, doesn't mean it won't. Personally, I can't see it working. But I do see the point and agree it's worth trying.
I stand by the comments I made about price too. MFL should cost more than the standard dual license. Whether the MFL goes up or standard one goes down. They shouldn't be priced that way unless you want everyone going for MFL. Which was why I asked.
Don't forget, I asked questions as to why first. I am not trying to cause a disturbance or dictate to anyone. Just trying help. I'll stay out of it now then.
MuLab has been around for what, 20 odd years? Anyone heavily interested in music production will likely know of this site and of MuLab. I followed it from the days of luna but didn't purchase until MuLab 3/4.
I get what you're saying but that's a very romantic attitude. Potential is highly uncertain and never means definite. But yes if there is a steady stream, even if its small, of new customers that's good.
Depends what people want out of their daw. With respect Jo has admitted and also has a dedicated sticky regarding requests stating he can't do it all.
I don't see MuLab becoming like reaper. I don't mean as a daw, but the whole way it is developed. Team of devs, finances, etc. Not because I'm looking negatively, but realistically, MuLab doesn't cater for or appeal to the higher end of the market. I have no idea why, I'm not in that business.
I'm just giving an opinion for Jo to take on board and be aware of. Not a do what I say cos I'm right, cos I'm not right. But it is a VERY valid point to take into account.
Flstudio made it work as they are a bigger company. They have the resources to do so. Doesn't mean it will work, doesn't mean it won't. Personally, I can't see it working. But I do see the point and agree it's worth trying.
I stand by the comments I made about price too. MFL should cost more than the standard dual license. Whether the MFL goes up or standard one goes down. They shouldn't be priced that way unless you want everyone going for MFL. Which was why I asked.
Don't forget, I asked questions as to why first. I am not trying to cause a disturbance or dictate to anyone. Just trying help. I'll stay out of it now then.
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- KVRian
- 760 posts since 26 Sep, 2007
I didn't mean to shut you down – just pointing out that it's a valid strategy, especially for a smaller shop that's still trying to grow its audience. FL Studio didn't start a big company and they've had lifetime-free updates from the start (or at least very early on, I don't remember precisely).sl23 wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:16 am Don't forget, I asked questions as to why first. I am not trying to cause a disturbance or dictate to anyone. Just trying help. I'll stay out of it now then.
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- KVRAF
- 3148 posts since 28 Mar, 2008 from a Galaxy S7 far far away
As I said, I do see your point and how it can be a good thing. I'm not convinced it is in this instance though.
My way of seeing it is this:
How many customers of MuLab are there? Only Jo knows, but judging by how many users I've seen on here over the last 15 years, I'd guess around 200-300. But that's only a guess. Let's be generous and say there's 10 times that. if they all buy MFL, where's your income? There maybe a few new customers per year, let's say 20-30 a year. That's being generous, as I don't see that. But again this is only going from what I see which is highly limited.
These people will most likely buy the cheaper and better deal of MFL over a standard license, which means no more income from them. I will always buy the better deal, even if the lifetime license is twice the price, because something like this will be used for many years, which would mean paying out every year, as I have done until MFL came out.
I just don't see the merits of getting 10000 customers, because after the initial payment, that's it, you're essentially working for free. I dunno, maybe I'm just completely wrong! Apologies if I offended, wasn't meant to.
My way of seeing it is this:
How many customers of MuLab are there? Only Jo knows, but judging by how many users I've seen on here over the last 15 years, I'd guess around 200-300. But that's only a guess. Let's be generous and say there's 10 times that. if they all buy MFL, where's your income? There maybe a few new customers per year, let's say 20-30 a year. That's being generous, as I don't see that. But again this is only going from what I see which is highly limited.
These people will most likely buy the cheaper and better deal of MFL over a standard license, which means no more income from them. I will always buy the better deal, even if the lifetime license is twice the price, because something like this will be used for many years, which would mean paying out every year, as I have done until MFL came out.
I just don't see the merits of getting 10000 customers, because after the initial payment, that's it, you're essentially working for free. I dunno, maybe I'm just completely wrong! Apologies if I offended, wasn't meant to.
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- KVRAF
- 13862 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
Sl23, it's ok asking the question, having a chat about it. Sometimes i also have certain doubts about it, it's not rocket science. But i do see benefits in the MuLab For Life concept. I'm not going into too much detail as that would be too time consuming. So lets try it out for some time, maybe a year, maybe longer. Time will tell.
Note that it's not because MFL is an option today that this will the one and only shop option forever. Maybe next year another shop concept will be used. No confusion, Rest assured: Anyone who has bought MuLab For Life is guaranteed to get all MuLab updates for free, including all main updates, as promised! But it could be that next year the MuLab For Life option ceases to exist, and no new users can get into MuLab For Life. I'd say: If anyone is interested in MuLab For Life, grab it today, while it's there, the more with the BF promo now. Allow me to repeat, to avoid any possible confusion: Anyone with MuLab For Life will keep MuLab For Life even if MuLab For Life would be removed as a shop option in the future. I hope that's loud & clear and i hope no MuLab For Life user has any doubts after reading this post
Note that it's not because MFL is an option today that this will the one and only shop option forever. Maybe next year another shop concept will be used. No confusion, Rest assured: Anyone who has bought MuLab For Life is guaranteed to get all MuLab updates for free, including all main updates, as promised! But it could be that next year the MuLab For Life option ceases to exist, and no new users can get into MuLab For Life. I'd say: If anyone is interested in MuLab For Life, grab it today, while it's there, the more with the BF promo now. Allow me to repeat, to avoid any possible confusion: Anyone with MuLab For Life will keep MuLab For Life even if MuLab For Life would be removed as a shop option in the future. I hope that's loud & clear and i hope no MuLab For Life user has any doubts after reading this post
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- KVRAF
- 3148 posts since 28 Mar, 2008 from a Galaxy S7 far far away
That's great news and thank you. Tbh I never doubted your integrity on that.
My only concern, and I'm sure everyone would agree, is that I wouldn't want it to ruin you or your desire to continue to develop MuLab.
I see the idea now, though I'm not really convinced it's the right move, I hope I'm wrong truly.
I still think MFL should cost more than the standard dual bundle. I would say the same even if I hadn't purchased MFL, just as I said MuLab was too cheap back around 2014 or so.
Thanks for your work Jo and your dedication. I know I'm a pita sometimes, don't take it personal though! Lol
My only concern, and I'm sure everyone would agree, is that I wouldn't want it to ruin you or your desire to continue to develop MuLab.
I see the idea now, though I'm not really convinced it's the right move, I hope I'm wrong truly.
I still think MFL should cost more than the standard dual bundle. I would say the same even if I hadn't purchased MFL, just as I said MuLab was too cheap back around 2014 or so.
Thanks for your work Jo and your dedication. I know I'm a pita sometimes, don't take it personal though! Lol
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Jonathan Shepherd Jonathan Shepherd https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=5644
- KVRian
- 740 posts since 28 Jan, 2003
Just remember, you can always donate. The option is at the bottom of the shop page.