Soundtoys Plugins still not resizable?!?! "there are no plans currently to implement resizable GUIs for our plug-ins"

[Morty-C-137]

Actually, let me get back to this - it takes months of R&D, and then some other months to implement the new GUI, as its so complex that every image needs to be reconstructed pixel by pixel and every button state needs to be redrawn by hand, and when implementing in the code the devs need to code the pixels separately, drawing them on a complex OpenGL framework that needs to also be connected to the plugin API which needs to be redesigned to be able to cope with the higher resolution monitors. Only the GUI change itself costs a lot of programmer hours, which adds up to at least $50 from the final cost of the plugin. That's why asking $199 for distorsion plugin is absolutely justified, even if Behringer just released an analog hardware synth for $250 - we all know that Uli is bad and needs to be booed.

Now spread that cost over the 12 years or so they had to work on all the GUI's..

[Alexander_D]

They are still one of the best and with a musical soul...

[dastewart]

I think it's absolutely incredible that Soundtoys plugins are still relevant today given that they pretty much haven't been updated (except for bug fixes and purely technical upgrades to keep them working) since they originally dropped.

And we're talking about nigh on 20 years ago since something like Echoboy was released and it's still one of my "goto" delays.

It's a huge shame that they haven't added things like oversampling and resizable GUIs but, as far as I can tell, Soundtoys don't really exist in a development sense and they are just marketing and technical support.

That's disappointing but it doesn't take away from how great an achievement these plugins were when originally released.

[Lerian]

My guess is that people fall for the analog-hardware UI design more than anything else. Because on comparison, Fabfilter Saturn is in a totally different league on how it sounds and what it can do. All that at 2/3 of the cost of Decapitator.

I don't underestimate the power of autosuggestion. Almost all of us fall for our own perceptions, and this is quite visible in the plugin space - almost all plugins that look hardware-like are thought to sound better than digital looking equivalents, even tho that's a lie. Its the same as being fooled by gain.

[Stokely]

Not a fan of hardware-looking plugins personally. They have to sound good (e.g. Lindell 80) for me to overcome the cluttered distracting look and (sometimes) hard to use (with a mouse) 3d knobs and settings. Lindell 80 is a great example of a crap UI. I don't need it to *look* like a Neve, I want it to sound and act like one. I'd much prefer to have a Valhalla-style skin on it that I can expand as big as I like, and is flat and usable. I can barely make out where the EQ is set to for example. The input preamp control is a teeny tiny virtual screw surrounded by nothing, it's dumb. (Don't care if that's what the real deal was.)

It is funny, because those rusty dented metal "chassis" on that style of plugin is no more or less of a facade than a flat vector-looking graphic.

But hey different strokes. No doubt that form matters a lot just like function does, to most people anyway, and we all have our different preferences!

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

If Soundtoys is going to overhaul their GUI's, I'd suggest tweaking the older GUI's themselves. There's too much deep-black on deep-black. Example: the "Mode" knob on Echoboy is very hard to see and doesn't stand out at all. If the background elements were a less harsh shade of black, the knobs would stand out more. Keep the background black, but make the knobs a little lighter. There are also weirdly dark shadows.

New Sountoys plugins work much better from a color and lighting point of view.

[vitocorleone123]

Gonna guess the codebase is so old that updating the UI could mean a total rewrite.

Given how long they’ve been around and as seemingly popular as they are, the main explanation comes down to the owners want to keep the profits they’re milking from their reputation rather than spend it on giving their current and future users what they need.

[Lerian]

Gonna guess the codebase is so old that updating the UI could mean a total rewrite.

Not the case. Plugins were updated to vst3 in October 2022.

But that was a mandatory move to keep the sales flowing, since Steinberg cut the licensing for vst2.

[Teksonik]

I'll point out that the entire Plug & Mix bundle of 50 plugins just got resizable GUIs and not upscales of the old ones but two brand new high quality options and the upgrade was given free to existing license holders.

That code was a bit old as well so I think the only excuse SoundTOYS has is they simply don't GAF.

By the way you can get the Plug and Mix Bundle for $39.99 right now so well worth checking out (and no iLok needed).

https://everyplugin.com/vip-bundle.html

[plexuss]

I wouldnt be surprised if Soundtoys revenue is lower than it would be with updated plugins including re-sizable GUIs. I can't think of a business reason not to if it were possible. They could easily working out the cost benefit. So the cost to do so must be higher than the projected revenue. considering their brand success and good products with lots of industry media support (reviews etc)... this must be very stressful for the business owners losing out on this opportunity. And, perhaps being locked into the last major revision and unable to innovate the products further. Having to start from scratch... big costs. They must have lost control of the code. Seems to happen more than I'd expect with plugin companies. I guess: lessons learned...

[Mr Arkadin]

On my last computer upgrade I didnt even bother reinstalling these. Seem abandonware now. A similar fate awaits Black Rooster, although the vst3 beta gives me some hope, but the wait time there will reach peak-SoundToys level soon.

[dastewart]

I'm not sure I've ever seen anything official but I just assume that Soundtoys doesn't really exist in terms of developing new plugins. We had superplate in 2023, little plate in 2018, soundtoys 5 (which I think included the full "grown up" primal tap) in 2016 and microshift in 2014. Maybe I've missed something but that's 3-4 new plugins in 10 years plus whatever is required to keep their plugins working with new OS versions.

Which, in my mind, means they don't have any full time developers.

So, my assumption is they've got marketing and they've got technical support (both probably out-sourced) and occasionally, like once every few years, hire somebody to work on a new plugin. All this is conjecture but, like plexuss said above, I don't think they've got warm bodies to keep busy so if they're going to make enhancements to plugins (like resizable GUI and oversampling) it's simply a matter of working out if the cost of hiring somebody to do it is worth the extra profit they'll make.

[aMUSEd]

Obviously no one noticed someone from Soundtoys in this thread saying they are working on this and had already laid the groundwork in the last updates

[dastewart]

Obviously no one noticed someone from Soundtoys in this thread saying they are working on this and had already laid the groundwork in the last updates

I'll hold my hands up and say I didn't notice this (or more correctly I came to this thread late and didn't read all the pages before posting) so thanks for the nudge.

However, I've just read the comment and that doesn't really change my view. Mainly because "working on it" in Soundtoys timescales (which are kind of glacial) could mean we are many years away. They were working on a new plugin for 5 years after releasing Little Plate before unveiling Super Plate.

And I'm not a developer so I'll just offer this for information - Black Rooster Audio have reziable GUI and they are all VST2. They're not infinitely resizable (you have to choose a specific percentage of the original) but they seem to work very well.

I'm not bashing Soundtoys, just being realistic about their speed of release which you can only see moving with some sort of time-lapse system.

[Winstontaneous]

I still use Soundtoys despite having many more "modern" plugins.
PanMan, Little AlterBoy, PrimalTap, EchoBoy, in particular. And FilterFreak responds to bass/guitar playing dynamics just like analog filter stompboxes, in a way that no "better" ITB filter does.

Every time I read Sound On Sound's features on top pro mixers, many still have SoundToys in their kit. And Soundtoys take out a full-page ad in TapeOp every issue, right opposite the table of contents.
But yeah the pace of development is glacial and I got the bundle 9 years ago.