Cheap MPE controllers

[machinesworking]

None of the cheaper controllers I've used were any good at all until I tried a Seaboard Block (the predecessor to the M, not the LED squares which are crap IMHO). It felt good to play slow chords with it, with very precise control over pressure and pitch... when it didn't cut out intermittently and frustrate the shit out of me. It was pretty awful for fast playing and velocity-based patches IMHO.

So, if you plan to play slow, and accurate pressure and pitch matter to you, AND if you get a unit that doesn't flake out, it might be worth it.

I love my Linnstrument 128 though... I got a used one, and it cost about 3x what the Seaboard did but it's also at least 3x better.

For slow chords and subtle pitch slides, while I enjoyed the squishiness of the Seaboard, the Linnstrument is equally accurate and playable. But it's also very well suited for faster parts and finger drumming. It does the grid thing, which greatly expands the available octave range while staying compact, and it's more configurable than Launchpad Pro or Polyend Medusa, with all the configuration right there on the unit. It's almost perfect IMHO.

It should be mentioned the strengths of each IMO.

The Seaboard Block or M is really good in the pressure and velocity department, it's also good with slide, but, for me anyway I wanted to engage pressure at the same time as slide for dramatic parts and it would lock my knuckles. Others don't have this issue, likely because they aren't playing it like that, but it was/is a downside of the M to me. The slide is a long throw though which is nice for subtle bowed string type sounds.

The Linnstrument is absolutely fantastic with pitch, nothing beats it IMO, whole chords can be slid etc. it's not bad with slide, but it's a tiny window, best for lest drastic changes in shound. Velocity is so so, it's a pad so you get what is possible with a pad, not too much. It responds really fast and the grid has alternate functions.

The Push 3 is nice pad size wise, a good amount of slide, and pitch is similar to the Linnstrument, but 64 pads holds it back personally, you adjust your playing to it, not the other way around.

I would say on all of these Pressure and velocity are sort of mixed up, you can get used to it but I wouldn't have drastically different things assigned to them, since you will get some random play between them. That's probably where the Expressive E Osmose would come in.

[foosnark]

TBH I didn't have much luck with slide on either of them. I basically never used the Y axis on Seaboard, it just felt too awkward. And yeah it's a tiny window on Linnstrument. But to me, motion in that direction is inherently less natural than side-to-side or pressure... I'd rather use an expression pedal if I want to perform another parameter.

[HOTF]

What are some of the cheaper options for MPE controllers? Ideally the controller would have : pressure, X,Y position and a way to slide between notes.

This fits most of your requirements.
https://www.keithmcmillen.com/products/k-board/

Personally I don't like the feel of the Seaboard Blocks, but there is a top bar for sliding between notes. The Linnstrument is easily the best instrument besides iPad apps for sliding between notes but they're 1K to start with.

iPad and Surface apps might be the cheapest if you have access to one.
This iPad app is fantastic in general, X Y pads, MPE keyboard etc. etc.
https://numericalaudio.com/kb1/index.html

I do have an Ipad.. interesting option! Might give it a go while I save money for a more worthwhile option. If latency is not too bad might be a perfect option for me rn.

[Ah_Dziz]

The super simple 2 octave seaboard seems the best deal to me. I wish it existed when I bought my "regular" seaboard. I've never used any of the other parts of the seaboard (x/y pad, other controls). If the keys are the same as the original seaboard it plays beautifully.

[FranklyFlawless]

I will mention that Joué Music Instruments is now out of business, so I will be updating the status of the Joué Play from my list of MPE hardware controllers on January 7th, 2025 to discontinued during the next monthly Zoom meeting.

[machinesworking]

The super simple 2 octave seaboard seems the best deal to me. I wish it existed when I bought my "regular" seaboard. I've never used any of the other parts of the seaboard (x/y pad, other controls). If the keys are the same as the original seaboard it plays beautifully.

I bought a Seaboard Block first and thought I would like the Rise with larger keys and 49 of them more, I did not. Sold the Rise and kept the Block. The smaller keys means a regular chord is not some overt stretch like it is with the 49, and I find it a little easier to do the slide or forward motion on the Block. I really wish they made a slick surface version, the rubber is an issue to me if you slide while trying to exert maximum pressure for the aftertouch. Something slick like Tyvec would work IMO much better, I get that people would complain about the slipperiness of it, but it would be less likely to do damage to your fingers.

[Ah_Dziz]

I'm not a good enough player to take advantage of more than 2 octaves of pitch sliding. My 2 octave seaboard did make me realize how much I enjoy release velocity most of all and poly AT, pitch sliding, and the rest second. I very much enjoy the feel of the rubber keys for playing and they have very good velocity sensitivity for drums etc. having the sensitivity sliders for each axis is actually handy but within a month of buying my 2 octave seaboard they came out with all the "blocks" including the 2 octave "seaboard blocks" which was 200 and change compared to the 600 I had just spent on the seaboard. The seaboard is dandy but I'd gladly have kept that money in exchange for the extra controls etc.

I really never had an issue with the rubber keybed. It was, if anything a constant reminder to use the extra MPE expression.

[machinesworking]

I really never had an issue with the rubber keybed. It was, if anything a constant reminder to use the extra MPE expression.

I immediately had issue with the rubber bunching up when sliding with full pressure. Totally agree that it's great for drums, but it's too grippy for slide unless you use light pressure.

[ThomasHelzle]

Yeah, the rubber surface with the goo inside is really complete crap in the seaboards.
I love it much more since I removed that stuff and replaced it with a layer of neoprene.

[foosnark]

how much I enjoy release velocity most of all

I've never really found a use for release velocity. What do you do with it? I could kind of see assigning release time so pulling off faster makes the release faster, but that never seemed particularly natural or expressive to me. (I haven't tried in on the Linnstrument yet though.)

[machinesworking]

Yeah, the rubber surface with the goo inside is really complete crap in the seaboards.
I love it much more since I removed that stuff and replaced it with a layer of neoprene.

Seem to recall you showing photos of doing this? could you point to it if I'm right or explain your process?

[ThomasHelzle]

Yeah, the rubber surface with the goo inside is really complete crap in the seaboards.
I love it much more since I removed that stuff and replaced it with a layer of neoprene.

Seem to recall you showing photos of doing this? could you point to it if I'm right or explain your process?

viewtopic.php?p=8232569#p8232569
It's much more playable for me this way and the mod also solved several other issues, like it's no longer sliding along the table on every move because of the wide-set rubber feet (see page 2).

The real Continuum is still way better and more sensitive, but also some magnitudes more expensive - the small one did not convince me.

I'd still go for the Osmose though, it's simply the best.

[Ah_Dziz]

how much I enjoy release velocity most of all

I've never really found a use for release velocity. What do you do with it? I could kind of see assigning release time so pulling off faster makes the release faster, but that never seemed particularly natural or expressive to me. (I haven't tried in on the Linnstrument yet though.)

It very much depends on the synth architecture but drastically shortening the release time while simultaneously increasing filter FM depth or regular PM index can give a very cool "mechanical" sound to a EP/ key patch. I really really like using it to set effect dry/wet as well as delay feedback or reverb decay at the end of notes. All of these things give you a very intuitive method of controlling spaces between notes by emulating actual playing styles (muting strings, mechanical dampers on an EP) or filling that space with any number of sounds that make the performance far more lively. In modular setups you can easily trigger a completely different "voice" at release that can have the same sort of performative effect as feedback in a guitar part, but can literally be any sound you can dream up. When using samples, you can trigger a granular playback of the sound you just played but based on the release velocity it can be stretched into a crazy looped drone that's run through a bandpass filter an then processed through a completely different FX chain than the "main sound". You can also program "main sounds" and "release sounds"completely independent of one another and then combine them willy nilly to get all types of performance you wouldn't otherwise get.
Most of this requires actually playing your MPE controller to get the most out of it and it could all be just programmed by hand with or without MPE. This was the part of MPE that I ended up enjoying the most once I got past sliding between chords and having poly after touch after all those years.

[foosnark]

I really really like using it to set effect dry/wet as well as delay feedback or reverb decay at the end of notes.

Oh, now that's a thought. I'll have to experiment a bit

[BONES]

Once again Bones talks out his ass about something he's likely never even seen IRL.

Exactly my point. You can't buy one, you can't even look at one in a shop. Even if you could, it would be ridiculously expensive. The cheapest model is three times the price of a Seaboard Block and it's not even a f**king keyboard, it's just a bunch of buttons in a layout that makes no sense to a keyboard player.

Roger f*cking Linn himself has answered every support email I've sent and I have no doubt it wouldn't be any different for AU.

He'd f**king have to, wouldn't he? He's the only man in the company. This from the RLD website - "The company consists only of Roger himself". It's another reason to stay away, if you ask me.

If the keys are the same as the original seaboard it plays beautifully.

I think the Seaboard Block's keys are better than the original Seaboard. They are a little more sculpted and it doesn't bunch up under your finger during a slide the way the original Seaboard can.

I immediately had issue with the rubber bunching up when sliding with full pressure.

That, to me, sounds like a patch issue. If you need the AT at full pressure, wouldn't it make sense to use another mod source, like velocity or an expression pedal, instead? Maintaining full AT pressure on any keyboard is hard. It's not really what it's designed for.

On that subject, I really like the way the Lumi Keys communicates the dimensions of touch to you. My keys are orange by default and when you strike a key it goes white at the end of the velocity stage. As you increase pressure (aftertouch), it gradually changes to a different colour (based on the default rainbow colours). When you wobble the key for vibrato, it changes from one colour to another. e.g. Pushing left turns it blue, pushing right turns it green. It's great visual feedback when the audible effect is maybe a bit subtle.