Let‘s speculate about 6.0

[xbitz]

If they don´t bring a better PR editor with the missing parts like scale highlight and lock/fold to scale and something which this time works in terms of default zoom etc...it will be the end for Bitwig and me!

This next update is the last chance I´ll give Bitwig... if there are no dedicated improvements to catch up with the rest of the industry and again just some lame CPU hog devices, I´ll be done with them!

I hope you have emailed them.

But you know, if you think it's that close to you switching to another DAW, then maybe you should.

If you chose Ableton or Cubase, it'll be interesting to see all the things you think are not great, or missing from those.

Yes, if you don't need the Grid, effect chains can be achieved with something like Guitar Rig/SoundToys/... as well. Now that modulators are available in Cubase, I'm perfectly fine using those too

Now that version 14.0.10 is out, it no longer crashes every twenty minutes, and Cubase has turned out pretty decent by the end of the year, but rooting for BWS as well,


but Cubase finally got a sequencer; there's room for improvement – drum machine, patterns, modulators(with Transit like master : slave macroing etc. so finally, I don’t have to draw endless automations anymore) – so version 14 turned out good, as long as it doesn’t crash

[Trancit]

I hope you have emailed them.

Is about ten times enough??

But you know, if you think it's that close to you switching to another DAW, then maybe you should.

If you chose Ableton or Cubase, it'll be interesting to see all the things you think are not great, or missing from those.

It´s not that not every DAW has it´s shortcomings... after 30 years music making I think everybody would be more than aware of it...

It´s that:
First and foremost: the PR is beside the arranger the center of my work ... midi plugins are cool but most of the times I like to make permanent changes without recording anything after some realtime effects...

- Getting a 32nd resolution by default when opening a new clip,
- having never the velocity in view by default,
- having massive visual glitches including wrong zooming and scrolling when doubleclicking existing clips,
- the world most silly folding behaviour including the lack of being able to zoom in
- and the absolute lack of any scale information, especially highlight and lock/fold to scale, while other have understood that scale information make even sense for instruments and audio FX...
are massive restrictions for me...

Watching this going on since 10 years while one mediocre dumb CPU hog device after the other get included while the claimed "Machine gun" releasing updates getting more and more rare, for the same price of course, and instead of machine gun we reached more the pace of a front loader, makes me indeed looking for alternatives...

[pdxindy]

It´s that:
First and foremost: the PR is beside the arranger the center of my work ... midi plugins are cool but most of the times I like to make permanent changes without recording anything after some realtime effects...

- Getting a 32nd resolution by default when opening a new clip,
- having never the velocity in view by default,
- having massive visual glitches including wrong zooming and scrolling when doubleclicking existing clips,
- the world most silly folding behaviour including the lack of being able to zoom in
- and the absolute lack of any scale information, especially highlight and lock/fold to scale, while other have understood that scale information make even sense for instruments and audio FX...
are massive restrictions for me...

Watching this going on since 10 years while one mediocre dumb CPU hog device after the other get included while the claimed "Machine gun" releasing updates getting more and more rare, for the same price of course, and instead of machine gun we reached more the pace of a front loader, makes me indeed looking for alternatives...

And month after month after month you post here complaining about these things.

Dude, just set yourself free and use a DAW that has those things already. It's absurd to punish yourself like this.

[Trancit]

And month after month after month you post here complaining about these things.

Dude, just set yourself free and use a DAW that has those things already. It's absurd to punish yourself like this.

Bitwig has many things I like... so I am still not at the point to give it up especially after the announcement they made in the previous beta...

I initially just posted that this will be the last chance I give them... the latter post was just provocated and not intended by me...

[_leras]

Yes, if you don't need the Grid, effect chains can be achieved with something like Guitar Rig/SoundToys/... as well. Now that modulators are available in Cubase, I'm perfectly fine using those too

Cubase has turned out pretty decent by the end of the year, but rooting for BWS as well,

but Cubase finally got a sequencer; there's room for improvement – drum machine, patterns, modulators(with Transit like master : slave macroing etc. so finally, I don’t have to draw endless automations anymore) – so version 14 turned out good, as long as it doesn’t crash

Bloody hell, not you as well.

Well I also have Cubase, and it's always been a powerful DAW no doubt, but compared to Bitwig it is pretty slow and clunky in most places, but some things are easier. For me Bitwig is just way more fluid. Cubase modulator, yeah fine, but also kind of an add on and nowhere near as integrated.

I don't really use the grid, but would say this, Bitwig with it's FX chains, routing, grouping means you can make FX chains out of anything, parallel chains, split by frequency chains, so guitar rig and sound toys chains/racks not really needed.

Interesting to say Cubase now has a sequencer, as I always thought it was a sequencer, with midi being one of its strong points, but I get it you likely mean step sequencer?

Anyway for me Bitwig just has the best workflow. I'm also pretty confident that with, ARM, CLAP, UI update out of the way that we'll see a lot of very practical core improvements in 6.0. can't wait.

[_leras]

.
.
.
.
are massive restrictions for me...

Watching this going on since 10 years while one mediocre dumb CPU hog device after the other get included while the claimed "Machine gun" releasing updates getting more and more rare, for the same price of course,

You're massive restrictions are annoyances to me, and I hope they get addressed, but they're by no means showstoppers.

And look I don't really need built in VST, but there's no denying a) Bitwig need a competitive FX/device offering, and b) the device/FX/plug in team are only focused on that and don't detract from the other work.

ARM, CLAP, UI and the audio interface updates have all taken probably a lot of work from the core team. I hope this will put Bitwig on a very steady standing for going forwards. I expect we'll see great core updates soon (arranger etc)

[Jac459]

I think it we are talking about BWS evolution in recent years, we shouldn't under estimate the major change of the v5.

V5 was a game changer as it really brought mseg modulations at track and project level and that totally changed my workflow in a way that I would not go back from.

Now I can audiosidechain my kick as a modulation for all my tracks at once and change the attack/release for everybody at once, how freaking powerful is that?

I can have global macro changing effects and gain of multiple tracks, effectively making transitions just turning a knob.

It just opened me so much possibilities....

As such, I am ok to say that some of the new devices are not so interesting. I will never use the compressor+ as I have proq4, pro mb and Pro C, but I don't care.
BWS still delivered me awesome value with this v5.

[Chameleonman]

I think it we are talking about BWS evolution in recent years, we shouldn't under estimate the major change of the v5.

V5 was a game changer as it really brought mseg modulations at track and project level and that totally changed my workflow in a way that I would not go back from.

Now I can audiosidechain my kick as a modulation for all my tracks at once and change the attack/release for everybody at once, how freaking powerful is that?

I can have global macro changing effects and gain of multiple tracks, effectively making transitions just turning a knob.

It just opened me so much possibilities....

As such, I am ok to say that some of the new devices are not so interesting. I will never use the compressor+ as I have proq4, pro mb and Pro C, but I don't care.
BWS still delivered me awesome value with this v5.

I've been using Birwig as my only DAW for almost 6 years now, but I use modulators so rarely and the global one never, can you teach me please how you do that kick sidechain like that ?

[Jac459]

....
I've been using Birwig as my only DAW for almost 6 years now, but I use modulators so rarely and the global one never, can you teach me please how you do that kick sidechain like that ?

Sure, there is surely multiple ways to do it but I can tell you mine.

First step is I create an eq2 on my channel.
Then I create a low shelf filter on this EQ2 at arround 150hz (depending of my kick).
Then I create an audiosidechaine modulator (I prefer it compare to the envelope follower modulator) on the eq2.
Then I chain this modulator to the dB level of the low shelf filter I created.
Then I configure the audiosidechaine to listen to my kick (and I choose the right frequency range).
Generally you will need to increase quite a lot the sensitivity.
Then I fine tune attack and release of the audiosidechain.

This way, when my kick plays, the bass and subbass of my other channel reduces to let the kick breath.


I'd you want that to be at project level, you just drag and drop the modulator to the project. Then you can use it in multiple channels at the same time.


That's it.
Of course instead of eq2 you could use a compressor, a limiter, even the gain, it is up to your preference.

[Chameleonman]

....
I've been using Birwig as my only DAW for almost 6 years now, but I use modulators so rarely and the global one never, can you teach me please how you do that kick sidechain like that ?

Sure, there is surely multiple ways to do it but I can tell you mine.

First step is I create an eq2 on my channel.
Then I create a low shelf filter on this EQ2 at arround 150hz (depending of my kick).
Then I create an audiosidechaine modulator (I prefer it compare to the envelope follower modulator) on the eq2.
Then I chain this modulator to the dB level of the low shelf filter I created.
Then I configure the audiosidechaine to listen to my kick (and I choose the right frequency range).
Generally you will need to increase quite a lot the sensitivity.
Then I fine tune attack and release of the audiosidechain.

This way, when my kick plays, the bass and subbass of my other channel reduces to let the kick breath.


I'd you want that to be at project level, you just drag and drop the modulator to the project. Then you can use it in multiple channels at the same time.


That's it.
Of course instead of eq2 you could use a compressor, a limiter, even the gain, it is up to your preference.

Thank you. I've been sidechaining the kick sometimes, not by default but as a problem solver when i need more separation with the bass. I made it just the way you do it but didn't know when to use the global modulators. Didn't quite understand the whole concept. Now I see how useful it is. I dont have to highpass so many channels if I just make them bow from the same sidechain modulator.

[Jac459]

....
I've been using Birwig as my only DAW for almost 6 years now, but I use modulators so rarely and the global one never, can you teach me please how you do that kick sidechain like that ?

Sure, there is surely multiple ways to do it but I can tell you mine.

First step is I create an eq2 on my channel.
Then I create a low shelf filter on this EQ2 at arround 150hz (depending of my kick).
Then I create an audiosidechaine modulator (I prefer it compare to the envelope follower modulator) on the eq2.
Then I chain this modulator to the dB level of the low shelf filter I created.
Then I configure the audiosidechaine to listen to my kick (and I choose the right frequency range).
Generally you will need to increase quite a lot the sensitivity.
Then I fine tune attack and release of the audiosidechain.

This way, when my kick plays, the bass and subbass of my other channel reduces to let the kick breath.


I'd you want that to be at project level, you just drag and drop the modulator to the project. Then you can use it in multiple channels at the same time.


That's it.
Of course instead of eq2 you could use a compressor, a limiter, even the gain, it is up to your preference.

Thank you. I've been sidechaining the kick sometimes, not by default but as a problem solver when i need more separation with the bass. I made it just the way you do it but didn't know when to use the global modulators. Didn't quite understand the whole concept. Now I see how useful it is. I dont have to highpass so many channels if I just make them bow from the same sidechain modulator.

Yes. So it is both easier and (I would guess) CPU friendly.

There is another usage which is purely creative where you can for example sidechaine a catchy drum loop and make it open the filter of a pad. Or create a glitch on a baseline, or... or.... imagination is the limit.

Another usage that I saw on "tache teaches" is what I was saying about transition.
Let's say you can link many many of your controls to one big macro of your project. You can with this macro: increase the speed of a snare roll, open the filter of a baseline, roll-off the attack of a kick, etc... etc... etc... As you control all at once, you can create a transition between 2 parts of your song that is only controlled by a macro... And you can transition exactly at the speed you want. You can also create a kind of "DJ effect" by quickly moving from one to another like if a DJ was mixing to vinyl... It is sooooo fun.

This kind of creative tricks works very well with the kind of music I like to make and it is hell of fun...
Once you taste it, it is hard to go back from it... That is why, in my modest case, it is really a huge game changer.

[questionaire]

Bitwig will not get my money to upgrade my yearly plan untill they sort out slicing inside the sampler.

All those silly extra plugs + i have enough of it get the real thing inside Bitwig, like midi comping and serious synths like drift is for Ableton fore example, or wavetable, operator, meld such sort of synths

To be honest im quite frustrated and torn between Ableton and Bitwig all the time. Bitwig in my opinion has the far better sound quality

[ere2learn]

I don't see polymer lacking vs drift/wavetable or meld sound wise, some osc warp modulators in wavetable would be nice addition.

[questionaire]

I don't see polymer lacking vs drift/wavetable or meld sound wise, some osc warp modulators in wavetable would be nice addition.

The thing is i'm not a musician who can endlesly play with modulation slots. Polymer is not bad ofcourse, but i never reach for it somehow. The synths in Ableton win for me i'm not a fan of the grid at all i'm no sound designer i prefer hardwired synth tools. Drift is such a simple great sounding synth it is by far the best synth in ableton in my opinion.
But everybody their own opinion ofcourse, in the end i reach evrytime for Bitwig as my main DAW. Recently i went back to Ableton to come to the conclusion that DAW wise Bitwig fits me better. You know for me Bitwig would cut it with simpler/sampler, Drift, Meld and Wavetable added together with Midi comping. Especially the slice/warp features in simpler are a masterpiece.

And for how long have the Bitwig community asked for midicomping and slicing in the sampler?

Bitwig has chosen to be flexible with the grid instead of hardwired synths so i suppose they will never build hardwired synths in future. Oh i forgot phase-4 i have tried but it gives me such a rudimentary results. I simply do not like the synths in Bitwig apart from sampler with its granular capabilities.

[Jac459]

I don't see polymer lacking vs drift/wavetable or meld sound wise, some osc warp modulators in wavetable would be nice addition.

The thing is i'm not a musician who can endlesly play with modulation slots. Polymer is not bad ofcourse, but i never reach for it somehow. The synths in Ableton win for me i'm not a fan of the grid at all i'm no sound designer i prefer hardwired synth tools. Drift is such a simple great sounding synth it is by far the best synth in ableton in my opinion.
But everybody their own opinion ofcourse, in the end i reach evrytime for Bitwig as my main DAW. Recently i went back to Ableton to come to the conclusion that DAW wise Bitwig fits me better. You know for me Bitwig would cut it with simpler/sampler, Drift, Meld and Wavetable added together with Midi comping. Especially the slice/warp features in simpler are a masterpiece.

And for how long have the Bitwig community asked for midicomping and slicing in the sampler?

Bitwig has chosen to be flexible with the grid instead of hardwired synths so i suppose they will never build hardwired synths in future. Oh i forgot phase-4 i have tried but it gives me such a rudimentary results. I simply do not like the synths in Bitwig apart from sampler with its granular capabilities.

The things with Bitwig instruments is that they benefit REALLY from their integration in the DAW with in particular polyphonic modulations with the DAW and more importantly, voice stacking.
What Ableton instruments benefit from being ... inside Ableton ??? I am not too sure.