Let‘s speculate about 6.0

[Jac459]

Bitwig will not get my money to upgrade my yearly plan untill they sort out slicing inside the sampler.

All those silly extra plugs + i have enough of it get the real thing inside Bitwig, like midi comping and serious synths like drift is for Ableton fore example, or wavetable, operator, meld such sort of synths

To be honest im quite frustrated and torn between Ableton and Bitwig all the time. Bitwig in my opinion has the far better sound quality

May I know why you need slicing so much ? I mean the fact that you can choose from where you play so easily replace the slicing to me (even if I wouldn't mind having it).

[questionaire]

I don't see polymer lacking vs drift/wavetable or meld sound wise, some osc warp modulators in wavetable would be nice addition.

The thing is i'm not a musician who can endlesly play with modulation slots. Polymer is not bad ofcourse, but i never reach for it somehow. The synths in Ableton win for me i'm not a fan of the grid at all i'm no sound designer i prefer hardwired synth tools. Drift is such a simple great sounding synth it is by far the best synth in ableton in my opinion.
But everybody their own opinion ofcourse, in the end i reach evrytime for Bitwig as my main DAW. Recently i went back to Ableton to come to the conclusion that DAW wise Bitwig fits me better. You know for me Bitwig would cut it with simpler/sampler, Drift, Meld and Wavetable added together with Midi comping. Especially the slice/warp features in simpler are a masterpiece.

And for how long have the Bitwig community asked for midicomping and slicing in the sampler?

Bitwig has chosen to be flexible with the grid instead of hardwired synths so i suppose they will never build hardwired synths in future. Oh i forgot phase-4 i have tried but it gives me such a rudimentary results. I simply do not like the synths in Bitwig apart from sampler with its granular capabilities.

The things with Bitwig instruments is that they benefit REALLY from their integration in the DAW with in particular polyphonic modulations with the DAW and more importantly, voice stacking.
What Ableton instruments benefit from being ... inside Ableton ??? I am not too sure.

For you maybe Bitwig grid stuff and modulation options has advantage for you. I'm more like the simple synth stuff like a good analog synth like Diva/Repro/Drift and good drums then i play my guitar rifs, play a bass loop on my bass guitar and then our singer will fill it with lyrics. Then i can do nearly everything with a good granular synth. I'm more like a preset surfer and look till i find the preset fits into the song.
You guys seems more oriented to the technical side and sound design side.

Beside all the grid stuff and overkill of modulation Bitwig is still my prefered DAW i can add Diva/Repro/Pigments/Minifreak and EZdrummer as vst's and i can do litterally anything i wish for.
Apart from slicing with timewarp there is no alternative VST for this.

What Ableton instruments benefit from being ... inside Ableton ??? I am not too sure.

Simplicity is what i need and directness with the instrument together with good sounds. And the Ableton synths in particular Drift give me that.

Ofcourse all their own opinions just wanted to point out that we do not all make electronic music and create our own sounds all the time. So Bitwig in my opinion should also look to the more traditional musicians and not only look to the tech savvy musicians.

[Jac459]

I don't see polymer lacking vs drift/wavetable or meld sound wise, some osc warp modulators in wavetable would be nice addition.

The thing is i'm not a musician who can endlesly play with modulation slots. Polymer is not bad ofcourse, but i never reach for it somehow. The synths in Ableton win for me i'm not a fan of the grid at all i'm no sound designer i prefer hardwired synth tools. Drift is such a simple great sounding synth it is by far the best synth in ableton in my opinion.
But everybody their own opinion ofcourse, in the end i reach evrytime for Bitwig as my main DAW. Recently i went back to Ableton to come to the conclusion that DAW wise Bitwig fits me better. You know for me Bitwig would cut it with simpler/sampler, Drift, Meld and Wavetable added together with Midi comping. Especially the slice/warp features in simpler are a masterpiece.

And for how long have the Bitwig community asked for midicomping and slicing in the sampler?

Bitwig has chosen to be flexible with the grid instead of hardwired synths so i suppose they will never build hardwired synths in future. Oh i forgot phase-4 i have tried but it gives me such a rudimentary results. I simply do not like the synths in Bitwig apart from sampler with its granular capabilities.

The things with Bitwig instruments is that they benefit REALLY from their integration in the DAW with in particular polyphonic modulations with the DAW and more importantly, voice stacking.
What Ableton instruments benefit from being ... inside Ableton ??? I am not too sure.

For you maybe Bitwig grid stuff and modulation options has advantage for you. I'm more like the simple synth stuff like a good analog synth like Diva/Repro/Drift and good drums then i play my guitar rifs, play a bass loop on my bass guitar and then our singer will fill it with lyrics. Then i can do nearly everything with a good granular synth. I'm more like a preset surfer and look till i find the preset fits into the song.
You guys seems more oriented to the technical side and sound design side.

Beside all the grid stuff and overkill of modulation Bitwig is still my prefered DAW i can add Diva/Repro/Pigments/Minifreak and EZdrummer as vst's and i can do litterally anything i wish for.
Apart from slicing with timewarp there is no alternative VST for this.

What Ableton instruments benefit from being ... inside Ableton ??? I am not too sure.

Simplicity is what i need and directness with the instrument together with good sounds. And the Ableton synths in particular Drift give me that.

Ofcourse all their own opinions just wanted to point out that we do not all make electronic music and create our own sounds all the time. So Bitwig in my opinion should also look to the more traditional musicians and not only look to the tech savvy musicians.

For sure, I can only agree with you...

In particular, I really think that Bitwigi is almost unbeatable for electronic music. But if you are not into modulations (and definitely, nothing wrong about that mate), I agree it loses a lot of his interest.

I also agree that Bitwig should certainly try to have more features for more traditional musicians (but I would not know what they are hehe, even if I started music by being a guitarist and learned 10 years music theory).

I was referring to the integration with the DAW because as you said, most of the time it is easier to go find your favourite synth, Diva, Phase Plant, Falcon...

But I agree ,polymer is nice but not jaw dropping if you take out the modulations and voice stacking. I rarely go to it.

[_leras]

For you maybe Bitwig grid stuff and modulation options has advantage for you. I'm more like the simple synth stuff like a good analog synth like Diva/Repro/Drift and good drums then i play my guitar rifs, play a bass loop on my bass guitar and then our singer will fill it with lyrics. Then i can do nearly everything with a good granular synth. I'm more like a preset surfer and look till i find the preset fits into the song.
You guys seems more oriented to the technical side and sound design side.

Beside all the grid stuff and overkill of modulation Bitwig is still my prefered DAW i can add Diva/Repro/Pigments/Minifreak and EZdrummer as vst's and i can do litterally anything i wish for.
Apart from slicing with timewarp there is no alternative VST for this.

What Ableton instruments benefit from being ... inside Ableton ??? I am not too sure.

Simplicity is what i need and directness with the instrument together with good sounds. And the Ableton synths in particular Drift give me that.

Ofcourse all their own opinions just wanted to point out that we do not all make electronic music and create our own sounds all the time. So Bitwig in my opinion should also look to the more traditional musicians and not only look to the tech savvy musicians.

For sure, I can only agree with you...

In particular, I really think that Bitwigi is almost unbeatable for electronic music. But if you are not into modulations (and definitely, nothing wrong about that mate), I agree it loses a lot of his interest.

I also agree that Bitwig should certainly try to have more features for more traditional musicians (but I would not know what they are hehe, even if I started music by being a guitarist and learned 10 years music theory).

I was referring to the integration with the DAW because as you said, most of the time it is easier to go find your favourite synth, Diva, Phase Plant, Falcon...

But I agree ,polymer is nice but not jaw dropping if you take out the modulations and voice stacking. I rarely go to it.

I have to disagree with the modulations being overkill. They're as simple of as complicated as you want them to be, and easy enough to ignore.

In terms of more for 'real' musicians, what do you feel is missing? It can record audio just fine.

It is a bit behind Ableton in terms of range of FX and instruments, but what it has are very useable and getting better.

I also struggle to get click with say polymer, compare to third-party synths, but I have to say, my band mate conjurs up great sounds from all the Bitwig instruments. So I think it's about context and sounds working for your idea and Bitwig instruments can sound great.

But if you're recording a band and recording multi channel instruments, perhaps there are better options.

However, for me, once back to the mixing stage Bitwig is just so good.

[Jac459]

For you maybe Bitwig grid stuff and modulation options has advantage for you. I'm more like the simple synth stuff like a good analog synth like Diva/Repro/Drift and good drums then i play my guitar rifs, play a bass loop on my bass guitar and then our singer will fill it with lyrics. Then i can do nearly everything with a good granular synth. I'm more like a preset surfer and look till i find the preset fits into the song.
You guys seems more oriented to the technical side and sound design side.

Beside all the grid stuff and overkill of modulation Bitwig is still my prefered DAW i can add Diva/Repro/Pigments/Minifreak and EZdrummer as vst's and i can do litterally anything i wish for.
Apart from slicing with timewarp there is no alternative VST for this.

What Ableton instruments benefit from being ... inside Ableton ??? I am not too sure.

Simplicity is what i need and directness with the instrument together with good sounds. And the Ableton synths in particular Drift give me that.

Ofcourse all their own opinions just wanted to point out that we do not all make electronic music and create our own sounds all the time. So Bitwig in my opinion should also look to the more traditional musicians and not only look to the tech savvy musicians.

For sure, I can only agree with you...

In particular, I really think that Bitwigi is almost unbeatable for electronic music. But if you are not into modulations (and definitely, nothing wrong about that mate), I agree it loses a lot of his interest.

I also agree that Bitwig should certainly try to have more features for more traditional musicians (but I would not know what they are hehe, even if I started music by being a guitarist and learned 10 years music theory).

I was referring to the integration with the DAW because as you said, most of the time it is easier to go find your favourite synth, Diva, Phase Plant, Falcon...

But I agree ,polymer is nice but not jaw dropping if you take out the modulations and voice stacking. I rarely go to it.

I have to disagree with the modulations being overkill. They're as simple of as complicated as you want them to be, and easy enough to ignore.

In terms of more for 'real' musicians, what do you feel is missing? It can record audio just fine.

It is a bit behind Ableton in terms of range of FX and instruments, but what it has are very useable and getting better.

I also struggle to get click with say polymer, compare to third-party synths, but I have to say, my band mate conjurs up great sounds from all the Bitwig instruments. So I think it's about context and sounds working for your idea and Bitwig instruments can sound great.

But if you're recording a band and recording multi channel instruments, perhaps there are better options.

However, for me, once back to the mixing stage Bitwig is just so good.

I think you quoted the wrong person. I am addicted to modulations.

[_leras]

I think you quoted the wrong person. I am addicted to modulations.

Apologies, maybe I was just agreeing with the sentiment in your response.

I also really like the modulations, and sprinkle them everywhere even in just subtle ways, let alone in the more obvious ways.

(I do think they could now implement and improved pop up with a UI for the modulations. Sometimes it feels a bit squished into the small FX rack, when it perhaps doesn't need to be.)

I also really like the macros.

[Jac459]

I think you quoted the wrong person. I am addicted to modulations.

Apologies, maybe I was just agreeing with the sentiment in your response.

I also really like the modulations, and sprinkle them everywhere even in just subtle ways, let alone in the more obvious ways.

(I do think they could now implement and improved pop up with a UI for the modulations. Sometimes it feels a bit squished into the small FX rack, when it perhaps doesn't need to be.)

I also really like the macros.

100%. Not everyday I find an instrument, a spare or a feature that spark my creativity and make me a better creator.

Modulations do.

[pdxindy]

Once you taste it, it is hard to go back from it... That is why, in my modest case, it is really a huge game changer.

Yeah, I could never go back. The global modulators are so fast and easy to do all sorts of stuff it feels like cheating

[pdxindy]

And for how long have the Bitwig community asked for midicomping and slicing in the sampler?

That should be "And for how long have some users in the Bitwig community asked for midicomping and slicing in the sampler?"

I don't care if they ever add slicing to the sampler. I never used Simpler back when I still used Live either.

If they added hybrid comping (midi and audio together in one clip), that would be compelling. Midi Comping, I'd be pleased, but there's other stuff I'd choose first.

[pdxindy]

The things with Bitwig instruments is that they benefit REALLY from their integration in the DAW with in particular polyphonic modulations with the DAW and more importantly, voice stacking.
What Ableton instruments benefit from being ... inside Ableton ??? I am not too sure.

It's a different approach to doing stuff. Ableton's instruments are simple and fast and sound pretty good. For some people, that works well. When I still used Live, I never used their included instruments and used VST's almost exclusively. I found them too limited. Live doesn't have a single MSEG in any of their instruments.

I'd rather have the Grid than every instrument in Live. I can do anything I want in the Grid and I find it nearly as fast as hardwired synths. Now with the new Freq Shift and Pitch Shift Grid modules, which work per voice, they again opened a wide new vista of sounds.

Bitwig's approach works well for me, but it doesn't work well for everyone.

[Jac459]

The things with Bitwig instruments is that they benefit REALLY from their integration in the DAW with in particular polyphonic modulations with the DAW and more importantly, voice stacking.
What Ableton instruments benefit from being ... inside Ableton ??? I am not too sure.

It's a different approach to doing stuff. Ableton's instruments are simple and fast and sound pretty good. For some people, that works well. When I still used Live, I never used their included instruments and used VST's almost exclusively. I found them too limited. Live doesn't have a single MSEG in any of their instruments.

I'd rather have the Grid than every instrument in Live. I can do anything I want in the Grid and I find it nearly as fast as hardwired synths. Now with the new Freq Shift and Pitch Shift Grid modules, which work per voice, they again opened a wide new vista of sounds.

Bitwig's approach works well for me, but it doesn't work well for everyone.

I fully agree. We are lucky to have so many excellent choices as we don't all need the same things.

For the grid, I must admit that I seldom use it.
My reasoning behind it, is that it is only useful for (very) advanced sound design. That's not my use case as phase plant will suffice for me, 100% of the case. I prefer to be a music maker as often as possible and be a sound designer only when last resort.

But am I missing something? Is there a use case of the grid, useful for my context that I am not seeing?

[Trancit]

That should be "And for how long have some users in the Bitwig community asked for midicomping and slicing in the sampler?"

Why do you downplay it just because of your personal preference??

I think many more requested timestretch and slicing for the Sampler than peeps asking for polyphonic Freq and Pitch shifters which "opened a wide new vista of sounds" which I would more translate to a whole bunch of weird noises barely anybody will touch in most genres...

There are only a very few DAWs outside which doesn´t offer simple and quick slicing AND timestretch into the inbuilt Sampler...
Cakewalk... never had an inbuilt Sampler afaik...
Reaper... well it´s Reaper... perhaps you can "customize" one...
Bitwig... no need because we have now polyphonic Freq and Pitch Shifters!

Don´t you think there is a huge reason behind why all other felt the need to offer it??

[xbitz]

I, for one, would be happy if 2 NoteGrids didn't use more CPU than a Diva instance, but I guess I'm asking too much from life.

[pdxindy]

There are only a very few DAWs outside which doesn´t offer simple and quick slicing AND timestretch into the inbuilt Sampler...

That means there are lots of tools to use to do what you want. Not every DAW needs to be the same as every other DAW.

It's entirely up to you if you want to sit here month after month, year after year being upset that the development vision of the Bitwig devs isn't what you want.

[pdxindy]

I think many more requested timestretch and slicing for the Sampler than peeps asking for polyphonic Freq and Pitch shifters

It's not a democracy. It's their software and they have their own vision. If they never add timestretch and slicing to the Sampler, there are still endless ways to control and play with samples in Bitwig as it is.

If someone is adamant that they must have those specific tools, there are plenty of options available today that have them. There is no actual problem.