add/detect sustain pedal to VST within Waveform 13.2.0

[dtckvr]

Sometimes, plugins don't come with sustain pedal capabilities.

Seems to be the case with this free organ VST: https://sampleson.com/collab3-free-tonewheel-organ.html

How complicated is it to manually add this functionality ? (if CC64=127 then play sustained notes)

Obviously the pedal sustains fine with other plugins so it is not a hardware/polarity switch issue.

Happy new year all

[Watchful]

If the plugin doesn't support sustain, it's impossible.

If it does, though, it's not too difficult to add. Assuming you already have an organ part done in MIDI, your choices include:

1. Open the MIDI editor, select the sustain pedal as the controller, and draw in the values with a mouse. If the track is short, this isn't too much of a pain.

2. In another track, create a MIDI clip. In this new clip, create nothing more than the sustain control at 127 for the full width of the clip. Copy and paste that clip all over the organ track, stretching or shortening the sustain clips for the desired length. This can be annoying, but is much faster than option 1 on a long track.

3. If you have anything that can act as a controller, set it as an input on a new track. Arm the track, then record yourself using the controller everywhere you want the sustain pedal to work in real time. This gives you real-time, pinpoint control. When done, ensure the newly recorded control track is set to the correct control number, then merge the tracks.

As a reminder, this won't work on recorded audio...only on recorded MIDI.

And again, if the plugin doesn't support that MIDI control, this isn't going to work...in fact, there are no options.

If you're recording an organ track in real time, you will need something that records MIDI control data...so you can activate it in place of a sustain pedal. Once the data is recorded, you can assign its value to anything and make it work.

[dtckvr]

Real time sustain is my use case indeed.

If you're recording an organ track in real time, you will need something that records MIDI control data...so you can activate it in place of a sustain pedal. Once the data is recorded, you can assign its value to anything and make it work.

Does this mean I still have to record first and post-edit the sustain?

I was hoping for some real time MIDI hack... So far my research has lead me to a few hints :
- using a built-in plugin, like "MIDI CC"
- using "MIDI learn" mode
- mapping a User Function to CC64 in the Custom control Surface Mappings. Dunno which macro to map it to though.

[pough]

I'm confused. Are you needing a plugin that accepts the MIDI sustain CC, or are you needing a sustain pedal?

I don't know of any way to fake sustain if the plugin ignores it.

I'm not sure how many - if any* - organ plugins would have sustain functionality but most synths do, so if you don't need super-accurate organ sounds use an organ preset on a synth. Collective has a few and Attracktive does as well. Sustain seems to work with them. There are likely many, many free synth plugins that have organ presets and accept sustain.

Or you could just hold your finger down for as long as you want to the note to sustain.

* I found two in my collection - neither free: Hillman and Elka Panther.

[dtckvr]

Ahah sorry, I do have a pedal and just trying to get it to work with that specific instrument (give it a try actually, it sounds really good).

I'll see if anyone else knows a hack.

Have a good one !

[Watchful]

Okay...IF the plugin accepts the sustain CC, Waveform will record it as you live record yourself. Make sure the physical pedal is attached to your keyboard as you play, just as you'd expect.

If the plugin does NOT accept that CC data, it's not possible to record the pedal. You'll need a plugin that does.

[dtckvr]

Interesting. Do you know any "waveform way" of checking if a plugin effectively accepts the sustain CC, like a hidden menu of all available CC with a given plugin or is it just a matter of intensively exploring the plugin GUI?

[pough]

If the plugin does NOT accept that CC data, it's not possible to record the pedal. You'll need a plugin that does.

I just tested this. Waveform absolutely records the on/off of the CC that the pedal sends, it just doesn't matter if the plugin receiving the MIDI ignores the information.

I'd be very surprised if DAWs have any way of knowing which CC data is handled by a plugin, so the likelihood of Waveform refusing to write any incoming data to a MIDI clip seems quite low to me.

[pough]

Interesting. Do you know any "waveform way" of checking if a plugin effectively accepts the sustain CC, like a hidden menu of all available CC with a given plugin or is it just a matter of intensively exploring the plugin GUI?

I don't know about MIDI CC, but I did see that there is an automation parameter called "sustain" for a plugin that handles MIDI CC for sustain (Hillman by Klevgrand.)

[Watchful]

Pough, what I meant was...yes, Waveform records the data dutifully (as would almost every DAW). But if the plugin doesn't support the CC, it doesn't matter. You need a plugin that does support to hear the effect. I shouldn't have said "record" in my reply above.