Deepmind 6/12

[Scotty]

I regard it as inspired by the Juno but not a clone. It can sound a lot like my Juno 60 if I want it to but goes far beyond it with that mod matrix and effect block.

[kritikon]

Well yeah, that's what it turned out to be - inspired by but way more depth than the original. I think the architecture and the layout, the filter etc absolutely scream out Juno beyond any doubt and back in the day Behringer themselves said exactly the same. They copied the IR3109 filter - in all Junos except the 106 and that is no coincidence. Just on look, it's undeniably got Juno heritage (but without the Sesame St colours - which is a good thing ), but I'm not saying that as a put down. Personally, I'd be happy if Behringer did more emus with the philosophy of DM. They obvs acted on the conclusion that, "y'know boys, these Junos are so basic and we can do so much better and make it so much better. Here's the opportunity to make a classic even classier". It's a shame Uli doesn't give his boys'n'girls as much leeway with other developments as with DM, though I'm sure it makes business sense to do direct emus mostly. For example, I'd go for a DM over their Neptune any day. It's a flat and hard no. DM is what a Juno could be, Neptune is mostly what a Juno is and will likely sell more, sadly. "Could be" wins for me. That's why DM still appeals and I might end up getting one. My 2 real Junos are both dead or dying but not worth resurrecting in the slightest. DM IS worth considering, and it would be bought directly as a Juno replacement.

[kritikon]

I'll definitely follow bmanic's previous advice though, and get the 12. For just a couple hundred extra or whatever, it makes sense to get the extra voices, even if only for the unison capability. And now I'll have space on my stands, so that's as good a reason as any IMO...

[Gordonjcp]

back in the day Behringer themselves said exactly the same. They copied the IR3109 filter - in all Junos except the 106 and that is no coincidence.

The Juno 106 absolutely does use an IR3109 filter, which is in itself a very plain boring LM13700 OTA ladder - it's just two and a crude expo converter in one package.

I'd say the Deepmind is closer to a JX3P than a Juno 106.

[AdvancedFollower]

Well yeah, that's what it turned out to be - inspired by but way more depth than the original. I think the architecture and the layout, the filter etc absolutely scream out Juno beyond any doubt and back in the day Behringer themselves said exactly the same. They copied the IR3109 filter - in all Junos except the 106 and that is no coincidence. Just on look, it's undeniably got Juno heritage (but without the Sesame St colours - which is a good thing ), but I'm not saying that as a put down. Personally, I'd be happy if Behringer did more emus with the philosophy of DM. They obvs acted on the conclusion that, "y'know boys, these Junos are so basic and we can do so much better and make it so much better. Here's the opportunity to make a classic even classier". It's a shame Uli doesn't give his boys'n'girls as much leeway with other developments as with DM, though I'm sure it makes business sense to do direct emus mostly. For example, I'd go for a DM over their Neptune any day. It's a flat and hard no. DM is what a Juno could be, Neptune is mostly what a Juno is and will likely sell more, sadly. "Could be" wins for me. That's why DM still appeals and I might end up getting one. My 2 real Junos are both dead or dying but not worth resurrecting in the slightest. DM IS worth considering, and it would be bought directly as a Juno replacement.

They still mention the IR3109 VCF on the product page:
"The inspired synthesizer tracks laid down in the 1970s and '80s are etched in the annals of progressive rock and pop music forever, making them truly classic in every sense of the word. DEEPMIND 12’s pure analog signal path with legendary IR3109-style VCFs, stereo VCAs, and 12-voice polyphony lets you recreate all that magic or design the powerful, original sounds that just might make you a legend in your own right."
https://www.behringer.com/product.html? ... e=0722-AAA

The basic architecture is very similar to a Juno 106, but as others have already mentioned, it goes way beyond what the original could do thanks to the mod matrix, FX, more Env's and LFO's etc.

[bmanic]

The only thing that sounds "slightly" like the 106 in my opinion is the filter.. but even that one has very different sweetspots (actually worse than the original juno in my opinion). Everything else sounds nothing like it. The Saw and Square sound completely different (again, unfortunately the Square especially sounds way worse in the DeepMind).

So yeah, while it may perhaps been inspired by the Juno it's definitely not a clone and not even all that close inspirationally. It just behaves and sounds very different. You CAN get similar sounds out of it but it takes a bit of effort.

What makes the DM so great is when you take it as it is, as a standalone 100% unique beast of it's own. It's extremely capable of creating a vast array of different sounds. It sits within a mix exceptionally easily, both with thin pokey sounds and phat/warm sounds. Like I've said numerous times, I think if there ever was to be a future classic synth in the Behringer branding, this is it. This is one of those things that will fetch 2000€+ on the used market in 20 years. It's just superb!

[whyterabbyt]

back in the day Behringer themselves said exactly the same. They copied the IR3109 filter - in all Junos except the 106 and that is no coincidence.

The Juno 106 absolutely does use an IR3109 filter, which is in itself a very plain boring LM13700 OTA ladder -

Hmmm, some say it was the BA662, which Roland were already using in the Jupiter 4 before changing to the IR3109 in later revisions. Clones were made based on the LM13700.

https://amsynths.co.uk/2022/04/06/all-a ... 3109-chip/
https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=126397

Mileages may vary, but its interesting that Behringer's CoolAudio chip company did start producing a BA662 clone.

[Gordonjcp]

In the 80017 it's an IR3109 and two BA662 OTAs. The BA662 is basically the same as an LM3080 and an LM13700 is pretty much just a dual LM3080 with a couple extra diodes for linearisation - it behaves just like a 3080 if you leave them unconnected.

If you make an 80017 clone with three LM13700s it is utterly indistinguishable from The Real Thing. The only thing to watch is that the thick film resistors on the ceramic slab are laser trimmed to be cock on spec - but if you build your clone to be a copy of a Juno 60 filter using LM13700s and a simple expo (and it's just a pair of transistors) you can just use 1% resistors and be just about bang on.

[dellboy]

I have my Deepmind 12 on the desk, and yesterday while I was playing it my wife asked me if I was playing a juno? And thinking about it, I guess if you had to give the Deepmind a "sound", I guess juno is a pretty good approximation. I like the sound because it is relatively uncoloured. The juno sound is quite subtle. It can do all sorts of sounds from pianos to brass to flutes, and without imparting too much of a signature sound. I am beginning to love this little synth.