FR: Still no DAW-synced MMultiAnalyzer Wave-Form Mode like in Oszillos Mega Scope or PsyScope???

[zeep]

I'm sure any mixing engineer worth his salt will agree low end phase relationships are massively important. A good visual representation of this -synced- helps a lot. Furthermore it's a huge timesaver, which we all value.

Maybe Melda can make a new dedicated plugin if it is not possible to add in an existing one.

[Held]

Maybe MSmartMixer will have tools to make mixing the low end easier. But we'll never know if other feature requests get priority.

[_al_]

The thing is, MMultiAnalyzer was never an oscilloscope! It's a tool for comparing spectrums and finding collisions. That's what musicians do the most. And as such, adding what you are asking for is reaaaally difficult. If you have a plugin with a sidechain showing 2 spectrums, sure, easy, but here, not at all. And since there are plugins that do, what you ask for...

That's a fair point, I guess.
But how about comps like MMultibanddynamics? That literally has the oscilloscope view at the bottom. In fact, that is the one plugin where I miss it the most.

[elirian]

The thing is, MMultiAnalyzer was never an oscilloscope! It's a tool for comparing spectrums and finding collisions. That's what musicians do the most. And as such, adding what you are asking for is reaaaally difficult. If you have a plugin with a sidechain showing 2 spectrums, sure, easy, but here, not at all. And since there are plugins that do, what you ask for...

My request and dream is not necessarily for MMultiAnalyzer - but even just for for MXXX and MOscilloscope.
I buy a subscription to your plugins because of their amazing innovation, very different (often idiosyncratic) workflows and sounds. They are harder to control than most other VSTs and unusual, but this is great and unique.
MXXX (and "multi band everything" with all kinds of splits) is a game changer for me for sound design, modularity. Inclusion of things like companders and AGC modules are fantastic "quality of life" improvements. I can transform a simple kick into multiple layers of percussive elements and start a seed of a whole new track based on a single instance of MXXX.

But in my production genres (mostly techno), seeing tempo-synchronized elements is critical for creating rhythms and making sure layers work well together. Yes, I can and use my ears, but when I hear that something is off, having a "debugger" and visual aid is tremendously valuable.
MXXX waveform visualizations are sadly not useful (for me).
Adding tempo sync to MOscilloscope and triggering on beats does not seem like something "really difficult"... (However, I am also a software developer, so I understand and appreciate that there might be some code complexity that makes it challenging, like latency compensation flow inside of your codebase or something along those lines)

I understand you have different priorities and many feature requests, but please consider our needs - it would really make your plugin ecosystem more "complete" and self-contained... We'd really appreciate it!

[zuhizuhi]

The ship of Melda's slowly sinking under the weight of marketing and commercial success... Tons of flaws are neglected, lots of obvious and useful features are missing, requests ignored. Original structure is unique and powerful, but it still requires a lot of attention. But this is exchanged for cheap hype markety things like mixingrevolution bla bla bla. Things that professionals DON'T need. They are needed by amateurs, "mama gimme money i want mixin-rivalushn" kind of users. But you know what? Those don't really love and appreciate Melda. Those are just passers-by. People who REALLY appreciate Melda are control-freaks (how they call them), people who are fans of tweaking things, combining, manipulating, controlling, connecting etc. And what's most important - people who actually FOUND that in Melda and couldn't find in any other plugins. These are true and loyal Melda fans. And whose requests are now being neglected. Yep. The ship is sinking and I'm afraid, guys, we are going down with it because it's actually a very good ship (or once was) and it's our one and only ship!

[Held]

But this is exchanged for cheap hype markety things like mixingrevolution bla bla bla.

If you think hyped marketing and the MixingRevolution are new, you can't have been a Melda fan for very long...

Things that professionals DON'T need. They are needed by amateurs, "mama gimme money i want mixin-rivalushn" kind of users.

Professionals aren't so insecure that they feel the need to bash amateurs.
Professionals don't publicly badmouth developers.
Professionals get asked by developers for their input because they have valuable insights to offer.

The ship is sinking and I'm afraid, guys, we are going down with it because it's actually a very good ship (or once was) and it's our one and only ship!

I think Melda is going in a great direction. The last few released plugins are great. MSoundFactory is getting a steady stream of new features and instruments. MTurboFilter looks really promising.

But I guess I'm not a control freak, so I don't feel the need to control Vojtech's decisions.

[zuhizuhi]

Professionals aren't so insecure that they feel the need to bash amateurs.
Professionals don't publicly badmouth developers.
Professionals get asked by developers for their input because they have valuable insights to offer.

Not bashing anyone nor badmouthing for that matter. It's just the truth. All big-time developers went that way and now melda's turn. Seen Izotope Trash 3? It's literal trash Trash 2 was one of the most powerful distortion/waveshaping plugins on Earth. And what did they do to it? Instead of improving the original product, adding more substantial important features, fixing flaws, limitations - they just coloured it very very nicely, wow, modern lushy animations, juicy graphics, wow, mama, I want it. Inside it's just a castrated sheep, a parody on what's it once was. Actually you can do a lot more with Trash 2 than with 3. How come? Aaah, they went "the progressive innovative way". I see.

Here we see an ominously similar picture. Tons of requests, tons of possibilities for improvement, but instead - mixingrevolution. Seriously, I'm not making this up, don't make me a bad guy, just read the forum - everyone's complaining about it. The issue of "no sidechain audition button" in TurboComp has been for a few years, really, no such button in such a powerful compressor? Gotta be kidding me. I've seen this complaint many times in different places and for a long time - ignored. Dry/wet knob somehow cancelling the EQ (and thus changing the character of compression) when it shouldn't, if you want to do new-york compression you need to BLEND the parallel signal, keeping your eq curve intact. But you cannot do this properly with TurboComp. What!? It's such a versatile powerful device and you cannot do such a generic thing as new-york compression? You can't. Ignored. I also wrote about the delay time of 1/4 dotted being instead 1/8 dotted (1/8 dotted becoming 1/16 dotted etc.) in all synced plugins which is not logical at all and I got an answer: it's gonna stay as it is. Or no-no, it wasn't that, it was (exact excerpt from the letter):
It's intentional to ensure that the order makes sense. For example, if you set it to 1/8 and it doesn't feel quite right, the closest alternative in timing is the dotted one, as it is now.
I don't get it at all. What order? If I select 1/4 dotted, I expect 1/4 dotted. Period. But what's most important then was added:
In any case, nothing can be done about it. Thank you for your understanding.
Oh my God You should've said that right from the start - that's the core of the problem. It's just NO ONE CARES to fix things and that's all.
If I'm saying all this am I disrespecting someone? I'm not saying anything bad, not badmouthing anyone, I just say what I see and I don't care who's to blame for this Vojtech or anybody.

MTurboFilter looks really promising.

I'm 100% with you on this. TurboFilter is absolutely... stop. You not being a control-freak are you sure about this? And you're into TurboFilter? TurboFilter is a dream of a control-freakest freak. That whole idea with scripting filter chains oh my God... it's just insane. I adore it. And TurboReverb for that matter, those are just pure Melda spirit.

[] Peter:H []

But this is exchanged for cheap hype markety things like mixingrevolution bla bla bla.

If you think hyped marketing and the MixingRevolution are new, you can't have been a Melda fan for very long...

Things that professionals DON'T need. They are needed by amateurs, "mama gimme money i want mixin-rivalushn" kind of users.

Professionals aren't so insecure that they feel the need to bash amateurs.
Professionals don't publicly badmouth developers.
Professionals get asked by developers for their input because they have valuable insights to offer.

The ship is sinking and I'm afraid, guys, we are going down with it because it's actually a very good ship (or once was) and it's our one and only ship!

I think Melda is going in a great direction. The last few released plugins are great. MSoundFactory is getting a steady stream of new features and instruments. MTurboFilter looks really promising.

But I guess I'm not a control freak, so I don't feel the need to control Vojtech's decisions.

Aha ... so a insight of PsyTrance Professionals is, that a multi-wav, daw-synced View is a good thing ... voila. Thx Held, finally you got it
Or want another fish for always putting words in other peoples mouth and turning things always the way it suits you best even if turns out it's an argument against your yesterdays self? I can send one, if you like.

[Held]

I'm 100% with you on this. TurboFilter is absolutely... stop. You not being a control-freak are you sure about this? And you're into TurboFilter?

I like to explore, and discover beautiful sounds that I didn't know existed. Plugins like MTurboReverb and MTurboFilter are great for that kind of stuff. When I find something nice, I see if I can build something with it. That's the opposite of control and actually fun.

[_al_]

The ship of Melda's slowly sinking under the weight of marketing and commercial success... Tons of flaws are neglected, lots of obvious and useful features are missing, requests ignored. Original structure is unique and powerful, but it still requires a lot of attention. But this is exchanged for cheap hype markety things like mixingrevolution bla bla bla. Things that professionals DON'T need. They are needed by amateurs, "mama gimme money i want mixin-rivalushn" kind of users. But you know what? Those don't really love and appreciate Melda. Those are just passers-by. People who REALLY appreciate Melda are control-freaks (how they call them), people who are fans of tweaking things, combining, manipulating, controlling, connecting etc. And what's most important - people who actually FOUND that in Melda and couldn't find in any other plugins. These are true and loyal Melda fans. And whose requests are now being neglected. Yep. The ship is sinking and I'm afraid, guys, we are going down with it because it's actually a very good ship (or once was) and it's our one and only ship!

You just said everything that a lot of us are just too polite to say ourselves.

When I ask for Delta mode built into every Melda plugin, which is simply phase inverting the wet and mixing with the dry, so you only hear what has actually been changed by the plugin, I'm just brushed off, because it can be done in MXXX.

Since when has that seemed a daunting task for the guy that makes the "most advanced plugins in the world"?
Even Ozone has a Delta mode now, and that's basically a mastering plugin for dummies (though I do use it myself hehe)

My honest opinion... if you would rather have some gimmicky mixing revolution plugin instead of Delta, Synced Oscilloscope etc, then I really don't know why you choose Melda in the first place.
From the very beginning they were made for the people who found the other 99% of plugins unsatisfactory in their level of flexibility.

Then the "Easy Mode" came along, and although I saw it as nothing more than trying to appeal to a larger common denominator, I understood and accepted it.
The Melda brand was growing, and people who shouldn't even have been interested in Melda were now complaining about the complexity.

But being the polite guy I am, I stayed out of those arguments. And now look. Every plugin defaults to this Easy Mode, and STILL, every time I see a Melda thread, people are STILL complaining about how confusing and messy and ugly everything is!

So wtf. You and me have never complained about such things because we truly value what these plugins give us. We are the real core of the Melda community.

And yet, we are the ones who are ignored, in favour of the people who would be happy to use 10000 other plugins instead of Melda.

So yeah. Well said Zuhizuhi.
Most people will find your post over-dramatic, but the real Melda fans will know exactly where you're coming from.

[Held]

When I ask for Delta mode built into every Melda plugin, which is simply phase inverting the wet and mixing with the dry, so you only hear what has actually been changed by the plugin, I'm just brushed off, because it can be done in MXXX.

Why not use a DAW that has a delta mode? In REAPER, you can easily get the delta for every plugin. That's much more flexible. You should ask the maker of your DAW to add a delta functionality. Then you can delta all your plugins

Since when has that seemed a daunting task for the guy that makes the "most advanced plugins in the world"?

When the list of feature request has thousands of entries, it doesn't matter how daunting or trivial they are. Most of them will never get done. I think Vojtech is in the best position to decide what's best for Melda. You think your feature request is super important and valid, but you're probably less than 0.01% of the user base.

My honest opinion... if you would rather have some gimmicky mixing revolution plugin instead of Delta, Synced Oscilloscope etc, then I really don't know why you choose Melda in the first place.
From the very beginning they were made for the people who found the other 99% of plugins unsatisfactory in their level of flexibility.

I already have delta and a synced oscilloscope, though. Why would I want more than one? What could possibly be added to a synced oscilloscope that would make it superior to existing ones?

So wtf. You and me have never complained about such things because we truly value what these plugins give us. We are the real core of the Melda community.

What do you think the Melda community is? The 10 people who regularly post in this forum?

And yet, we are the ones who are ignored, in favour of the people who would be happy to use 10000 other plugins instead of Melda.

If you're getting ignored, maybe your overestimating your importance to the Melda community...

[zuhizuhi]

(though I do use it myself hehe)

Ozone's always been good, it looks good, it sounds good, why not help oneself to some?

if you would rather have some gimmicky mixing revolution plugin instead of Delta, Synced Oscilloscope etc, then I really don't know why you choose Melda in the first place.

Absolutely. There are tons of that on the market - Neutron 4, Ozone again for mastering, Trackspacers, Gullfosses and what not. All those are "revolutionary" Nonetheless still doesn't help people do great mixes mwhahaha me as well

Then the "Easy Mode" came along

Oh, with this I'm totally OK. It's very interesting actually to be able to build easy interfaces, to construct unique plugins, but I get your point.

STILL, every time I see a Melda thread, people are STILL complaining about how confusing and messy and ugly everything is!

Really, ugly? I find everything very intuitive and very pleasant to the eye (lots of skins to choose from) and in a STRICT uniform style (no ******* sausages, anime girls and ****) - just like any professional equipment should be!
And sure, Melda's suite's definitely not for those who's not into experiments and deep programming. But I'm happy to see you here, my friend Who shares my point of view...

[_al_]

When I ask for Delta mode built into every Melda plugin, which is simply phase inverting the wet and mixing with the dry, so you only hear what has actually been changed by the plugin, I'm just brushed off, because it can be done in MXXX.

Why not use a DAW that has a delta mode? In REAPER, you can easily get the delta for every plugin. That's much more flexible. You should ask the maker of your DAW to add a delta functionality. Then you can delta all your plugins

Dude, you're totally missing the point...
Yes we can all do it. Easy workaround. But THAT IS the point. These little things are a level of elegance that a lot of us EXPECT from these plugins.

You think your feature request is super important and valid, but you're probably less than 0.01% of the user base.

Actually you do have a good point there! Though its unlikely the percentage is that low lol. There's a hell of a lot of club music that gets made with these plugins, and you would sure see their eyes light up if delta and tempo synced oscilloscopes came to the Melda ecosystem.
But I didn't just write all that to try and get one feature request granted.
I am talking about the Melda philosophy and it's history.

What do you think the Melda community is? The 10 people who regularly post in this forum?

More people than I could count, that's for sure. I just see Melda getting bashed by angry mobs, then Melda giving in and dumbing their plugins down to some extent, then Melda being bought out, then doing whatever the fk it is they are doing now.

It just seems to me that the Image Line takeover has taken a lot of drive and spark away from the company? They used to have that drive to remain at the cutting edge.

Seriously, we are so far away from the times when people were making feature requests and Vojtech was REALLY engaging with people. Even arguing with people. trying to understand.
And this was the thing that actually turned these plugins into the monsters they became.

Melda is still way ahead of most companies, which is why I think just a few little tweaks would be enough to keep these plugins on top where they should be.

But look... I do kinda agree with a lot of what you are saying. Their user base is a lot bigger and certainly more diverse than it used to be, so maybe I should be just be happy with what I got and STFU

[Held]

They used to have that drive to remain at the cutting edge.

You think yet another tempo synced oscilloscope is cutting edge? If you want something from the good old times, you can look forward to MSmartMixer (formerly teased as mixing revolution) because it's been conceived at least ten years ago. Hopefully, it will bring that good old Melda feeling back for you.

[_al_]

They used to have that drive to remain at the cutting edge.

You think yet another tempo synced oscilloscope is cutting edge? If you want something from the good old times, you can look forward to MSmartMixer (formerly teased as mixing revolution) because it's been conceived at least ten years ago. Hopefully, it will bring that good old Melda feeling back for you.

Sigh... and again, twisting peoples words to make them fit your warped opinion of them.
It's the Melda plugins that were cutting edge, and I clearly said that it would only take some minor tweaks like delta and synced oscilloscopes to keep them at the top, where they belong (because they are already way ahead of everyone else in terms of features and flexibility).

If you could quote the part where I said synced oscilloscopes are cutting edge, then fair enough. But failing that, please let's just stop this. I'm sure we both have better things to do.