I Have A Confession To Make

[gauderbock]

Peak Barney for me was "In the manger like Christ I lay, yellow fever, yellow hay"

[Bunny_boy]

That's always tickled me - going from a singer who wrote the lyrics to Dead Souls, New Dawn Fades, and She's Lost Control to, well, the above examples

[zerocrossing]

I think by using AI at a creative point, YOU have devalued all your songs to junk level and into irrelevance. The deal with the devil has destroyed you as an artist.

Had you noticed that most music is always super derivative in the first place? Now a LLM is helping. So what? I took one look at that album cover art and thought, "Ugh. Midjourney," but most people just look at it and think "cool," though soon people will start getting bored by the same vibe, over and over.

The truth is, few people are actually artists. What they are is craftspeople, which is why they can easily slip into using a new tool, just like someone who makes birdhouses can get a new CNC machine to speed up the process. They're looking for the praise and money for doing the craft, and they don't actually have anything to say, so they don't care that they're not really saying it. They never had anything to say in the first place. They were always just basically doing what an LLM was doing anyway, listening to an artist or a bunch of artists in a genre and just imitating them.

The good news is, actual artists need to make art the way that you have to poop. It's just something that you are compelled to do. Poseurs will always exist and now they have "AI" to help their poseuring. Nothing really to see here, because there never really was.

[vurt]

Yet in my mind, there is no doubt that Prodigy and Chemical Brothers have revolutionised electronic music (and music in general).

I'm not hearing it. Chemical Brothers have one song that sounds vaguely like a Frontlione Assembly rip-off but, beyond that, I've not hear anything from them that seems remotely different from anyone else.

The song you are saying is not very new, by the way, is from mid-90s.... Have you realised that ?

Yes. The same year that Smack My Bitch Up was released, PWEI broke up, after five albums.

Find me one equivalent example in this era. Maybe you can name Front242 from Belgium but they are far from this level of quality.

Pop Will Eat Itself constantly reinvented their sound on every album, with the aid of top-shelf producers like Flood. This is what they sounded like on their first album in 1987 -



Then on their second album in 1989, the same year NIN released Pretty Hate Machine, they had refined things, probably thanks to Flood -



Then they took a left turn in 1991 -



By 1994 they were back with their heaviest sound yet -



But this is possibly my favourite, from between their 2nd and 3rd albums -



But the point is, you are not going to fully understand how much Prodigy sounds like a pale imitation of PWEI without listening to all their stuff, because they were so inventive that it's impossible to pick a "typical" PWEI song. From this sampling, though, you can definitely feel their overall vibe.

The mix of rock and electronic, today ubiquitous, was at this time unheard of and defined modern music.

Come on, rock and electronic music had existed right through the 1980s. Have you never heard of DEVO or Simple Minds? Even before that there was Prog Rock. For that matter, I was doing rock with electronic instruments in the mid-80's (badly). This from 1987 -

i ran in to climt at glastonbury. literally, one of the girls with us, was chasing me trying to grab my balls, i ran straight in to him, nearly knocked him on his arse.
90 or 92 i think? they played that weekend too.

[BONES]

I saw them in 2022, the first post-Covid gig I'd been to, and they were great. Almost an original line-up, except for Clint, but Mary Byker is a reasonable substitute. Then I saw them again last year and they were pretty average, but they remain one of my favourite bands and This is the Day... is definitely one of my all-time favourite albums. I've probably seen them half-a-dozen times over the years. So much energy!

[jamcat]

So then, we've concluded that using AI to write your lyrics should be discouraged, unless you're Bernard Sumner.

[HTT]

Come on, rock and electronic music had existed right through the 1980s. Have you never heard of DEVO or Simple Minds? Even before that there was Prog Rock.

The late 1970s and early 1980s was the mass production stage of synths and rock.





https://retrofuturista.com/electronic-e ... -in-music/

Ever build/play one of these?

[BONES]

I took one look at that album cover art and thought, "Ugh. Midjourney," but most people just look at it and think "cool," though soon people will start getting bored by the same vibe, over and over.

If you said that out loud, 99% of people would ask "what's Midjourney?" How many painters copied Monet's style to make the Impressionist movement in the 19th Century? Most people, me included, couldn't tell a Van Gogh from a Monet but that doesn't preclude them from appreciating the painting. That Midjourney has a such a recognisable style is something I saw as a positive. Now it's just krap that could have come from anywhere.

The good news is, actual artists need to make art the way that you have to poop. It's just something that you are compelled to do. Poseurs will always exist and now they have "AI" to help their poseuring. Nothing really to see here, because there never really was.

Nice try but way off the mark. If you aren't using all the tools at your disposal to do the best work you possibly can, you're selling what you do short. But again, maybe the art isn't what matters to you, maybe it's all about being an "artist", which is something I have less than no interest in. In fact, given the choice, I'd be happier to be thought of as an artisan than an artist, although I'd not really be comfortable with either label. I mostly think of myself as a performer, I just need something to perform, so the other shit needs to be done. In my experience, artists are mostly dipshits and wankers.

[Tiles]

No we are not ^^

99% of art is craftsmanship. All the things that can and must be learned to be able to do the art part. A so called 3d artist can be in the situation that he will never ever make a single concept art. But just make real what others invented. The craftsman part. Game Props for a triple A game for example. But he will add his personal style to it. The imperfections. A guitar player in a band may join after all the songs have been written. And never ever invent a single riff or lick in his band carrer. But he will add his style to the sound. And that is what makes him an artist.

AI is not an artist. It does not add its own personal style. It is a tool that follows advice. Well, yeah, you could say that this typical Midjourney look is the personal style of Midjourney. But the Midjourney look comes from somewhere. It's the essence of good craftsmanship and following the artistic rules merged into one image. It is perfect in any aspect. Following all the rules that the AI has learned.

And that's where the art now really starts. To make an Midjourney image that does not look like Midjourney. And for that you need a real artist again. That's why i said before, you cannot eliminate the human factor here.

[BONES]

Sorry but visual effects doesn't work like that. You are a cog in a machine, you churn out exactly what you're told to, because there are at least two levels of management between you and the guy who signs off on everything and no-one is going to take a chance on anyone's artistic style getting in the way of their deadlines. AI wouldn't so that, it would do it its own way because it doesn't know any better. Of course, that will change over time, this stuff is only a couple of years old. One day it will do everything and we'll all be out of work. I don't care, I'll be eligible for the pension in October so it won't affect me. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens. My money is on anarchy and chaos and an eventual end of everything.

[Tiles]

That's what i said. 3D artists are basically craftsmen. It remains art though

[HTT]

No we are not ^^

99% of art is craftsmanship. All the things that can and must be learned to be able to do the art part. A so called 3d artist can be in the situation that he will never ever make a single concept art. But just make real what others invented. The craftsman part. Game Props for a triple A game for example. But he will add his personal style to it. The imperfections. A guitar player in a band may join after all the songs have been written. And never ever invent a single riff or lick in his band carrer. But he will add his style to the sound. And that is what makes him an artist.

AI is not an artist. It does not add its own personal style. It is a tool that follows advice. Well, yeah, you could say that this typical Midjourney look is the personal style of Midjourney. But the Midjourney look comes from somewhere. It's the essence of good craftsmanship and following the artistic rules merged into one image. It is perfect in any aspect. Following all the rules that the AI has learned.

And that's where the art now really starts. To make an Midjourney image that does not look like Midjourney. And for that you need a real artist again. That's why i said before, you cannot eliminate the human factor here.

Also, what is encouraging, IMO, is the notable uptick in sales trends for the physical instrument market. You can't AI playing a physical instrument. Thus, the need for an artist. AI can do touch ups on a recording but it can't play a Fender Jazz bass with all of the nuances of playing a physical instrument.

[BONES]

A meaningless distinction by someone desperate to prove his own relevance. You have no relevance, get over it and get on with your sad, meaningless, little life. (I'm not picking on you, that is the reality for all of us.)

That's what i said. 3D artists are basically craftsmen. It remains art though

No, they are assembly-line workers in a dark sausage factory. They have a specialty and they never stray beyond it. They are highly specialised technicians, at best. They might be modellers or character riggers or animators or texture artists or lighting guys but they all do their little part and pass it up the line to the next guy. They never get to make something from start to finish. It's horrible, soul-destroying work.

[Tiles]

A meaningless distinction by someone desperate to prove his own relevance. You have no relevance, get over it and get on with your sad, meaningless, little life. (I'm not picking on you, that is the reality for all of us.)

What a bad and sad way to look at your life

No, they are assembly-line workers in a dark sausage factory. They have a specialty and they never stray beyond it. They are highly specialised technicians, at best. They might be modellers or character riggers or animators or texture artists or lighting guys but they all do their little part and pass it up the line to the next guy. They never get to make something from start to finish. It's horrible, soul-destroying work.

The one does not exclude the other. The very most 3d artists starts as generalists. And specializes itself then. You cannot be a good rigger when you know a shit about topology. And again, this is where the art starts. It is not only craftsmanship.

And not everybody is in this sausage factory with highly specialized jobs. Archviz is mostly done by lone wolfs for example. And back in the days when i made games i did everything by myself too. That's the masses, that's how it starts. Triple A titles and big studios is just a part of the whole.

[BONES]

What a bad and sad way to look at your life

Welcome to reality. There are more than 8 billion of us, what makes anyone think they have anything more to offer than any one else? Humans have always tried to see themselves as special, their lives as important and meaningful, but that's nothing more than an effective evolutionary tactic. The people who think their lives matter will outcompete those who do not. The reality, though, is completely different.

We are all just spare parts stacked on shelves in some vast warehouse, eminently disposable and mostly of little or no use. We are left there to gather dust until we pass our use-by date and are tossed into a bin. I find that thought liberating, it allows me to do exactly what I feel like doing because I feel no sense of responsibility to society, I see no reason to do anything that's expected of me. I live by my own rules, I set my own standards and I do whatever I like. Of course, one aspect of doing what I like is not going to gaol so I don't kill as many people as I otherwise might but that's just part of living in the real world.

No, they are assembly-line workers in a dark sausage factory. They have a specialty and they never stray beyond it. They are highly specialised technicians, at best. They might be modellers or character riggers or animators or texture artists or lighting guys but they all do their little part and pass it up the line to the next guy. They never get to make something from start to finish. It's horrible, soul-destroying work.

The very most 3d artists starts as generalists. And specializes itself then. You cannot be a good rigger when you know a shit about topology.

Of course you can. Rigging isn't really that hard, it just takes some time to get good at it. You learn by doing and the more you do, the better you get. It's no different to training a dog or a soldier, really. But that's not where we started, we were talking about people who work in big post-production and gaming houses and they are pretty much all specialists who do boring, repetitive work.

And not everybody is in this sausage factory with highly specialized jobs. Archviz is mostly done by lone wolfs for example.

That's probably why I've never heard of it. It sounds like the name of a company that does architectural visualisation (which is a good job for 3D generalists). That and the fact I am a grown-up, not a child, and I outgrew games in my teenage years. These days, of course, society has a vested interest in making sure you don't grow up - children are so much easier to control.