Good Bye Reaktor, good bye NI synths

[oobesan]

I don't know that I'd even look at what it comes with. I already have more synths that I'll ever need and Reaktor is expensive. If I was going to fork over all that cash it would be because there are things I want to make. If you recall, I had a pretty vast library of synths and effects I made in SynthEdit, back in the day.

Reaktor- and all of its ensembles- can be purchased for $99 right now. That's the opposite of "expensive".

Where do you see it for $99. I see it for $199 everywhere

It was literally just on sale util March on Plugin Boutique for $99.

https://musicsoftwaredeals.com/price-hi ... struments/

It will be on sale again. Probably sooner rather than later.

[oobesan]

Reaktor- and all of its ensembles- can be purchased for $99 right now. That's the opposite of "expensive".

No, it is the absolute most I have ever paid for any plugin and I've only spent that much three or four times in 20-odd years. I'll agree that it's a bargain and I am very tempted to buy it at that price, but $99 is still a lot of money, especially as I can't really see myself using it all that much.

I just looked on NI's site and Reaktor is Au$299. That's about 50% more than US$99, still more than I am wiling to pay for something I am unlikely to use that much.

I don't know what to say. Reaktor is not really a "synth". It's a language. The ensembles are the synths. But Reaktor can also be effects. You can buy a synth like Diva for $179, but Reaktor + all of its synths (ensembles) and the thousands of user library created effects and synths at $99 is "expensive"? Make it make sense.

[oobesan]

NI have announced there will be more synths. I wonder if they will all be based on Reaktor?

"Synths

While 2024 was the year Kontakt got its biggest update in years, in 2025 you’ll see more from NI in synths. It’s too early to share the rest of our plans, but I’m super jazzed about what the team is cooking up – including bringing some innovative new features to our synth products later this year."

Source: https://community.native-instruments.co ... 1f84812e7a

There is a 0% chance the NI's new synth(s) will be Reaktor ensemble(s). There is a 95% chance they will be Kontakt instruments and a 5% chance of stand alone synth(s) that you must load through Komplete Kontrol.

[machinesworking]

There was that tiny analogue/digital hybrid synth, Trueno, that was basically just a USB dongle. It was supposed to sound like a Polivoks, did you ever try that? I had one and it did sound good but, sadly, it was a bit fiddly to be using on stage and it eventually stopped working, like most USB peripherals. I don't even know where it is now.

Never tried it, one of those things where you would have to buy it to try it. There was another Polivoks clone years ago but it was an expensive small batch deal and I didn't bite on it because it cost more than a real Polivoks. I'm glad I didn't, especially now that Atomika is out.
https://www.matrixsynth.com/2016/04/pri ... oming.html

[BONES]

Trueno was only $99, which was something of a bargain. It came beautifully packaged, too. The only thing that let it down was that the VSTi interface was a bit uninspiring (and probably that it only came with 50 or so presets).

How do you balance Atomika in your tracks? Are you using just one or two instances per track or are you having a bunch of them? I played around with the idea to make a whole track only using Atomika and that quickly turned into an unbalanced mess...

Unbalanced how? We're only using one instance most of the time, mainly for lead/pad type things. Where we use two instances, one is usually doing a sequenced rhythm kind of thing. We're also using one of the sequenced drum type patches, modified to our requirements (of course).

I don't know what to say. Reaktor is not really a "synth". It's a language.

Yes, I see it as something I would use instead of SynthEdit.

You can buy a synth like Diva for $179

Sure but the thing is, I wouldn't. I've never paid more than $99 for any VSTi and I've only paid that much once or twice (Phaseplant for sure, maybe something else as well). I almost bought Diva when it was $99 but I decided it wasn't worth it.

Reaktor + all of its synths (ensembles) and the thousands of user library created effects and synths at $99 is "expensive"? Make it make sense.

It only makes sense if you use all of that stuff, which I don't think I would. It would be like the Arturia V Collection - I bought that a few years ago, when there was a sale on, and I have only ever tried out two or three of the instruments in it, because they were the only ones that interested me. I bought it because it was cheap but it turns out it was a huge waste of money because I have never actually used anything from the collection in any songs we've done. OTOH, we use Analog Lab quite regularly, it's all we really needed and we'd had it for years before I bought the V collection. So I am wary of buying things for their potential.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Pretty hard to innovate in the current market, no? If the resulting instruments are good then this would seem like a win-win.

no-no
With all its financial resources NI should be even more innovative than Dawesome!
But NI are focusing just on adding incremental features for other developers incremental updates.
We should *expect* more than sample packs, or samples packaged in a sampler.
Like fixing the bugs in Iris.
No?

Well, Dawesome is a one-man operation so I'm not sure resources have anything to do with it. And why does everything always have to be innovative? If anything, it's the more pedestrian things that need addressing in, for example, Massive X.

[CrystalWizard]

I think NI could do both- innovate and fix things. Agree with Michael L and others: They have the resources. If Peter V. can release a slew of "Dawesome" synths then so could NI. Also agree that there's almost no chance they would release anything Reaktor based and little chance of a actual "stand alone" non kontakt instrument. Look at their last synth release- sounds great, but it's so half a$$ed it's ridiculous.
The program designers, program coders, and QC people have left the building. It's swarming with bean counters. Despite all this, Reaktor for US $99 is a deal. It's a digital audio playground, not for everybody, But, almost anyone could buy it and just use the factory or UL stuff, and truly, as commented, create an albums worth of sound.

[parma]

For what it's worth, I think Dawesome is a 2 or 3 man operation now.

I got Massive X "free" from the Komplete Select/Novation promo and....it kinda sucks. I haven't spent too much time with it but it is not "fun" to program or tweak. It's a bit of a mess UI wise. Sounds good though.

[Havok]

Reaktor was available for £60 in a bundle with 5 or 6 of their other synths a little while back

[CrystalWizard]

For what it's worth, I think Dawesome is a 2 or 3 man operation now.

I got Massive X "free" from the Komplete Select/Novation promo and....it kinda sucks. I haven't spent too much time with it but it is not "fun" to program or tweak. It's a bit of a mess UI wise. Sounds good though.

I'm not sure how many people work with Dawesome, just that it's considerably less than NI.


£60 in a bundle, so, approx US$75, even better of a deal.

[pdxindy]

Look at their last synth release- sounds great, but it's so half a$$ed it's ridiculous.

That would have been okay if the release was followed by a series of updates addressing the stuff that didn't made it to begin with. Unfortunately it's been almost 6 years since release and there've been no significant updates.

[rod_zero]

NI have announced there will be more synths. I wonder if they will all be based on Reaktor?

"Synths

While 2024 was the year Kontakt got its biggest update in years, in 2025 you’ll see more from NI in synths. It’s too early to share the rest of our plans, but I’m super jazzed about what the team is cooking up – including bringing some innovative new features to our synth products later this year."

Source: https://community.native-instruments.co ... 1f84812e7a

it sounds like they are going to do updates, maybe to massive x.

It is quite a shame how NI has dropped R&D so hard, went from one of the best synth developers to one that hasn't released one in a long time and discontinued their catalog.

There is a 0% chance the NI's new synth(s) will be Reaktor ensemble(s). There is a 95% chance they will be Kontakt instruments and a 5% chance of stand alone synth(s) that you must load through Komplete Kontrol.

[digitalboytn]

Look at their last synth release- sounds great, but it's so half a$$ed it's ridiculous.

That would have been okay if the release was followed by a series of updates addressing the stuff that didn't made it to begin with. Unfortunately it's been almost 6 years since release and there've been no significant updates.

We have to cut NI some slack here...

It must have been traumatic being eaten by a large shark...

Those private equity white pointers are absolutely ruthless....

So how can you spend any quality time coding the assets when you're spending your time counting the beans ?

I guess it didn't really help that a lot of the coders were "let go" to help make the operation more efficient

[BONES]

With all its financial resources NI should be even more innovative than Dawesome!

There's no point in being innovative if your innnovations aren't doing anything useful. I was excited to try Abyss when it came out and, honestly, couldn't see the point of it and haven't even looked at anything they've done since.

The most innovative instrument I've come across in the last few years is actually an NI synth - TRK-01. It didn't hit the mark in every respect but it was a very different approach and a lot of the good stuff remains in TRK-01 Bass. To me, that's the kind of innovation that makes sense because it can take you in different directions without making everything you already know about synths redundant. Even something like Concept 2, with it's central modulation "stack", offers useful innovation.

Innovation doesn't require that you throw the baby out with the bathwater. It's most useful when it leverages existing knowledge, offering a novel approach that can lead to different results or better workflow. NI are actually pretty good at that. Look at instruments like SCHEMA:Dark (or Light), the workflow is very innovative and the result is something a bit different but, when you dig down into it, it's fundamentally stuff you already know how to work with.

If Peter V. can release a slew of "Dawesome" synths then so could NI.

They do, it's just that they aren't necessarily the kinds of synths you want them to be. That's not NI's problem, its yours.

Despite all this, Reaktor for US $99 is a deal. It's a digital audio playground, not for everybody, But, almost anyone could buy it and just use the factory or UL stuff, and truly, as commented, create an albums worth of sound.

If you know what you're doing, you can get an album's worth of sounds from pretty much any half-decent synth. That's kind of the point of them, really.

I got Massive X "free" from the Komplete Select/Novation promo and....it kinda sucks. I haven't spent too much time with it but it is not "fun" to program or tweak.

Maybe that's because it's a serious tool, not a f**king toy? The "fun" for me, the enjoyment of using an instrument, comes from the quality of the sounds you can get out of it. e.g. I found TRK-01 very annoying to work with but I loved what it could do, how good it sounded in our songs, and that's all that I cared about in the end.

It's a bit of a mess UI wise. Sounds good though.

If it sounds good, that puts it head and shoulders above the original. I found Massive has very few sweet spots, that mostly it sounds like something from the very early days of VSTi. i.e. Not good.

It is quite a shame how NI has dropped R&D so hard, went from one of the best synth developers to one that hasn't released one in a long time and discontinued their catalog.

Again, that's just you. Apart from TRK-01 and TRK-01 Bass, we don't use any NI "synths" any more, haven't for years, but we have bought and use the shit out of SCHEMA:Dark. We also use Straylight fairly regularly. So when I look at NI, I see a company that is very innovative and always coming up with new ideas. They're not all for me but that's what happens when you do things differently.

There is a 0% chance the NI's new synth(s) will be Reaktor ensemble(s). There is a 95% chance they will be Kontakt instruments and a 5% chance of stand alone synth(s) that you must load through Komplete Kontrol.

That works for me, and if you opened your tiny mind just a little, it might work for you, too.

[zerocrossing]

With all its financial resources NI should be even more innovative than Dawesome!

There's no point in being innovative if your innnovations aren't doing anything useful. I was excited to try Abyss when it came out and, honestly, couldn't see the point of it and haven't even looked at anything they've done since.

The most innovative instrument I've come across in the last few years is actually an NI synth - TRK-01. It didn't hit the mark in every respect but it was a very different approach and a lot of the good stuff remains in TRK-01 Bass. To me, that's the kind of innovation that makes sense because it can take you in different directions without making everything you already know about synths redundant. Even something like Concept 2, with it's central modulation "stack", offers useful innovation.

Innovation doesn't require that you throw the baby out with the bathwater. It's most useful when it leverages existing knowledge, offering a novel approach that can lead to different results or better workflow. NI are actually pretty good at that. Look at instruments like SCHEMA:Dark (or Light), the workflow is very innovative and the result is something a bit different but, when you dig down into it, it's fundamentally stuff you already know how to work with.

If Peter V. can release a slew of "Dawesome" synths then so could NI.

They do, it's just that they aren't necessarily the kinds of synths you want them to be. That's not NI's problem, its yours.

Despite all this, Reaktor for US $99 is a deal. It's a digital audio playground, not for everybody, But, almost anyone could buy it and just use the factory or UL stuff, and truly, as commented, create an albums worth of sound.

If you know what you're doing, you can get an album's worth of sounds from pretty much any half-decent synth. That's kind of the point of them, really.

I got Massive X "free" from the Komplete Select/Novation promo and....it kinda sucks. I haven't spent too much time with it but it is not "fun" to program or tweak.

Maybe that's because it's a serious tool, not a f**king toy? The "fun" for me, the enjoyment of using an instrument, comes from the quality of the sounds you can get out of it. e.g. I found TRK-01 very annoying to work with but I loved what it could do, how good it sounded in our songs, and that's all that I cared about in the end.

It's a bit of a mess UI wise. Sounds good though.

If it sounds good, that puts it head and shoulders above the original. I found Massive has very few sweet spots, that mostly it sounds like something from the very early days of VSTi. i.e. Not good.

It is quite a shame how NI has dropped R&D so hard, went from one of the best synth developers to one that hasn't released one in a long time and discontinued their catalog.

Again, that's just you. Apart from TRK-01 and TRK-01 Bass, we don't use any NI "synths" any more, haven't for years, but we have bought and use the shit out of SCHEMA:Dark. We also use Straylight fairly regularly. So when I look at NI, I see a company that is very innovative and always coming up with new ideas. They're not all for me but that's what happens when you do things differently.

There is a 0% chance the NI's new synth(s) will be Reaktor ensemble(s). There is a 95% chance they will be Kontakt instruments and a 5% chance of stand alone synth(s) that you must load through Komplete Kontrol.

That works for me, and if you opened your tiny mind just a little, it might work for you, too.

You both have points. Just because you can't find a use for Abyss, it doesn't mean that it's not innovative and interesting to other people. Similarly, I could care less about TRK-01, because it does not fit in with the way I make music at all. That doesn't mean you're wrong, we just have different goals in mind. Massive X is not only a very innovative synthesizer, but has still yet to be equalled in many ways. There is plain and simply no better digital synthesizer than Massive X when it comes to routing flexibility, per voice effects (including distortion) and feedback. Whether or not you care about those things is your own business, but I'm pretty sure if I posted a comparison video of other synths doing the same sorts of things, I'd get a consensus on that point.

My heater died and I'm in the process of replacing it. Heat Pumps are all the rage as the latest "innovation." They're literally just air conditioners that you can run in either direction, depending on your needs. If you were in the house, you'd not even really notice anything "innovative," and in fact, you may get annoyed that changing the temperature up a few degrees happens more slowly than a traditional gas furnace. The trade off is, the system is very efficient and cheaper to run in comparison to the 30 year old furnace that's dead. My point? It's not always about overt features. Lots of stuff that's going on under the hood can be really innovative, yet be fairly opaque to the end user.