Software vs Hardware

[Uncle E]

AFAIK, Nektar controllers are still manually mapped by justin3am. I've never owned one but always assumed his mappings would be spot-on.

[zerocrossing]

Sure, but that characteristic is mimicked quite easily in software and you don't have to hope your synth is at the sweet spot of miscalibration, and you can adjust it to taste.

Can you give some examples? I can only think of OB-E.

Many have it in some form or another, though it’s often under the hood and hidden behind an “age” or “vintage,” knob. It can also be achieved by using a mod matrix if the synth has the right sources and destinations. I’ve got a few templates that I use for Dune 3. The new multi/poly plugin has it.

[SebAV]

Changing rhe subject a bit, your setup sounds interesting. Have you any photos for us to get jealous over?

I don't have any on my phone, but I would be happy to take some, what would you like to see?

Probably this controller thing you've been mentioning. I'm trying to make my own setup more ergonomic but struggling for inspiration...

Sure let me clean up my studio a bit and I'll upload some in the next day or two

My studio was setup for efficiency and comfort not for Instagram so not sure how envious people will be

But I am happy to share none the less

Sorry if you’ve already post it but I don’t see any photos of your setup and since the explanations about your setup are very interesting I’d very like to see it (as others too it seems). Thank you !

[IvyBirds]

Who ever has ever seen what we can achive with just that, a good functionality within the cc mapping dialog, won´t ever go into a Forum and tell the people how good haptics and tactile feel HW has.

The mouse and screen is magnitudes faster and more agile at dealing with different software synths/fx than any midi controller.

So how do I adjust the Oscillator settings on one page of a plugin while simultaneously editing the mod matrix on another while also adjusting envelopes that are on another page? If you are using a mouse that means you have flip back and forth between pages

And then on anything but very simple analog Synths in hardware land you are reduced to menu diving because they don't have enough physical controls which is tedious and slow and just not very fun

What gets lost is the reality that you can use a mouse AND a great MIDI controller at the same time which is significantly faster and easier than page flipping in a plugin and menu diving in hardware

For tactile feel and muscle memory... hardware is better because it is not trying to control multiple devices with different designs.

Right you just have multiple hardware pieces all with different layouts where the same controls like ADSR and filter are in different places and that have different menu diving systems, versus having those common controls all the same universally between plugins

Having the same controls in the exact same places is far easier to develop muscle memory than having that control in 8 different places in 8 different Synths

As far as a tactile experience turning a knob is turning a knob and moving a fader is moving a fader and pressing a button is pressing a button

IME, the midi controller is stuck in between and sucks at both.

Actually being in the middle gives you the best of both worlds while eliminating many down sides from each. What sucks is hardware synths with menu diving and the synths without it are just plain boring and not very exciting. Ohhh a handful of wave forms, a mixer, limited modulation options, an envelope or two all sent through a Resonant Filter how exciting, of course there countless plugins like that and you can easily set up a controller to control them all exactly the same way

Then you have software synths that are powerful and have multiple pages/screens that controls different aspects but need to work together to build a patch

[IvyBirds]

Changing rhe subject a bit, your setup sounds interesting. Have you any photos for us to get jealous over?

I don't have any on my phone, but I would be happy to take some, what would you like to see?

Probably this controller thing you've been mentioning. I'm trying to make my own setup more ergonomic but struggling for inspiration...

Sure let me clean up my studio a bit and I'll upload some in the next day or two

My studio was setup for efficiency and comfort not for Instagram so not sure how envious people will be

But I am happy to share none the less

Sorry if you’ve already post it but I don’t see any photos of your setup and since the explanations about your setup are very interesting I’d very like to see it (as others too it seems). Thank you !

Apologies I will hopefully post some tomorrow or over the weekend, I have been away from home most of the week due to a family conflict with an elderly parent falling ill

But it's not really complex my sound design workstations has a computer monitor, a pair of audio monitors, an cheap Arturia 49 key MIDI Controller and 4 Novation Launch Control XLs that look like these

novation-launch-control-xl-top_700x700.jpg

But I will try to get something up tomorrow (Friday) or Saturday

[Tj Shredder]

A computer is not an instrument

Certainly its not your instrument, but most electronic musicians use it as an instrument… (I can turn almost everything into an instrument…)

I wanted to point out, that we should not fight about opinions or taste. Its useless. Its much more connecting to simply share our personal view and our personal experience.
Its more likely that someone want to get into a similar experience with hardware you share, by not forcing all the world to have the same opinion. That is driving all those who have a different experience to defend their point of view.

No matter what, our experience remain very personal. I can talk about it, but no more. Someone else will make a different experience with the very same circumstances and its her personal experience which can be shared as well. They exist peacefully side by side…

[frag]

It's best to look at authors whose music we remember.
I understand what J.Antonoff is saying, but I don't know his music.

Take for example Vangelis. We instantly remember many of his compositions.
In his interviews, he used to say that he doesn't like computers because they're too slow. Special system was made just for him, so he could use his hands and his feet to control some ten physical instruments at the same time!
Vangelis' work sticks to our minds because it's direct, sincere, made in a moment. He explained that some of his most memorable tracks were written, recorded & mixed incredibly quickly. It was literally one take for everything. So if Chariots of Fire main theme runs for 5 minutes, that's how long it took to be made!
Can this be done on a laptop? Perhaps it can, but it requires particular mindset as well as particular physique.

Yes, it's difficult to argue with Vangelis
He wrote his best stuff before computers & MIDI, and that's probably why it sounds so natural, live and present.

In order to make great music, one needs to master at least one instrument. Music has tonal structure, not just timbral. Everything else is "fun" - nothing wrong with that, and you can make money from having fun as well.

Here's a question which I can't answer:

HOW MANY SOFTWARE SYNTHS WERE MADE INTO HARDWARE VERSIONS?

We see hardware synths emulated in software every day. But how many soft synths were made into hardware, because their sound is unique and irreplaceable.

[The Chase]

What's better, soft weiner or hard weiner? Now swap weiner with ware. There's your answer.

[frag]

A computer is not an instrument

Certainly its not your instrument, but most electronic musicians use it as an instrument… (I can turn almost everything into an instrument…)

I wanted to point out, that we should not fight about opinions or taste. Its useless. Its much more connecting to simply share our personal view and our personal experience.
Its more likely that someone want to get into a similar experience with hardware you share, by not forcing all the world to have the same opinion. That is driving all those who have a different experience to defend their point of view.

No matter what, our experience remain very personal. I can talk about it, but no more. Someone else will make a different experience with the very same circumstances and its her personal experience which can be shared as well. They exist peacefully side by side…

But still, not everything is subjective in art.
We see that some authors create music which is remembered for a long time. This is usually accompanied with big sales.

So rational persons usually turn to these role models - they try to figure out what they do, is there anything common to all of them. We can definitely say: talent, 100% dedication and lots of hard work. Also, don't be fooled, every great author has at least some training in classical music, individual or academic. Jarre's best stuff is based on Bach, it's a modern, reductionist, dark version of Bach. That's why it worked so good and sticked to our ears.

Knobs, plugins and gadgets are nice to have, but there's no real music until one plays an instrument. Hardware or software, the actual notes.
Sure, all kinds of crap sell these days, but we can't call it "music" just because someone buys it.

[whyterabbyt]

peacefully side by side…
But still, not everything is subjective in art.

Absolutely everything is subjective in art. If you dont get that then you dont understand the meaning of 'subjective' or 'art'.

[El°HYM]

HOW MANY SOFTWARE SYNTHS WERE MADE INTO HARDWARE VERSIONS?

https://www.nonlinear-labs.de/blog/kontour/kontour.html

[BONES]

Take for example Vangelis. We instantly remember many of his compositions.

I don't remember a single one, although there is that characteristic Blade Runner style/sound that is instantly recognisable.

Vangelis' work sticks to our minds because it's direct, sincere, made in a moment.

I don't like Vangelis's stuff at all, really. At least, the small amount I've heard has not made me feel like listening to any more. Same with Jarre. There is nothing in any of it that grabs me.

Dude who care what they use. Are you hacking a Modwave to install a F*****g Excell ? No, so it's not a bloody PC with monitor, mouse and querty/azerty keyboard running any software.

Are you seriously suggesting that a PC's ability to run Excel is what makes it less suitable for music? Do you not see how utterly absurd that is and how utterly stupid it makes you look for suggesting it?

... PC with monitor, mouse and querty/azerty keyboard running software

You have just described the Fairlight CMI, one of the most innovative and game-changing synthesisers in the history of electronic music? (BTW, how can anyone manage to mis-type QWERTY.)

The X-Y pad is a great and it has 27 knobs. Honestly a pretty great controller, especially considering you can get a used one for under $400.

That's a lot of money for a used controller that can only control one synth, don't you think?

I mean, i see the point of Love towards HW.

Can I assume that means you've never owned any? Because if you had, you'd probably understand why it such a terrible, terrible idea. Really, it is.

Sure, but that characteristic is mimicked quite easily in software and you don't have to hope your synth is at the sweet spot of miscalibration, and you can adjust it to taste.

Can you give some examples? I can only think of OB-E.

There are plenty, too many for me to remember them all. Diva, OB-Xtreme and Obsession come straight to mind, as you can dial in the sloppiness per voice. Legend and Legend HZ have oscillator Drift and Phase knobs and a lot of Kontakt guitar libraries allow you to dial in the level of playing perfection to suit what you're trying to do. BA-1 has a slider that lets you simulate low battery voltage, which is kinda the same. I'm sure there are others but it's not something I specifically look for, so I can't remember all of them.

What gets lost is the reality that you can use a mouse AND a great MIDI controller at the same time which is significantly faster and easier than page flipping in a plugin and menu diving in hardware.

But a lot of work to get it up and running. I don't see that it's worth it, really.

IME, the midi controller is stuck in between and sucks at both.

Then your experience is far more limited than mine. How about any hardware synth with a patch memory? With how many of those can you just grab a knob and twist for instant gratification? Only a few, most require some fiddling, to turn past the current value before anything changes or some other scheme to account for the knobs not being a reflection of the current value. For me, one of the most important aspects of a synth interface is the ability to see all the current settings at a glance. Most modern hardware can't give you that but pretty much every softsynth can.

HOW MANY SOFTWARE SYNTHS WERE MADE INTO HARDWARE VERSIONS?

None, just as nobody buys a new car that runs like it was made in 1960. It would obviously be a stupid, backwards step.

We see that some authors create music which is remembered for a long time. This is usually accompanied with big sales.

Which means nothing, mostly. e.g. Joe Dolce had a worldwide no. 1 hit more than 40 years ago. I still remember it because it is possibly the most appalling song ever to top any chart. But he would have made enough money to buy an island somewhere and retire from it. Is he the kind of musician we should aspire to be? Is Shaddupa You Face the kind of music we should all aspire to make?

Also, don't be fooled, every great author has at least some training in classical music, individual or academic.

Says f**king who? I don't think any members of the Sex Pistols had any classical training. Their debut album contains some of the best songs I've ever heard and it changed the face of an industry.

Jarre's best stuff is based on Bach

... and it's boring as batshit and sounds almost as dated as Bach.

[El°HYM]

Sir BONES, who do you love more; Eno or Tangerine Dream?

[whyterabbyt]

Sir BONES, who do you love more; Eno or Tangerine Dream?

Well, his name is an anagram of 'BS Eno', so.....

[D-Fusion]

It's best to look at authors whose music we remember.
I understand what J.Antonoff is saying, but I don't know his music.

Take for example Vangelis. We instantly remember many of his compositions.
In his interviews, he used to say that he doesn't like computers because they're too slow. Special system was made just for him, so he could use his hands and his feet to control some ten physical instruments at the same time!
Vangelis' work sticks to our minds because it's direct, sincere, made in a moment. He explained that some of his most memorable tracks were written, recorded & mixed incredibly quickly. It was literally one take for everything. So if Chariots of Fire main theme runs for 5 minutes, that's how long it took to be made!
Can this be done on a laptop? Perhaps it can, but it requires particular mindset as well as particular physique.

Yes, it's difficult to argue with Vangelis
He wrote his best stuff before computers & MIDI, and that's probably why it sounds so natural, live and present.

In order to make great music, one needs to master at least one instrument. Music has tonal structure, not just timbral. Everything else is "fun" - nothing wrong with that, and you can make money from having fun as well.

Here's a question which I can't answer:

HOW MANY SOFTWARE SYNTHS WERE MADE INTO HARDWARE VERSIONS?

We see hardware synths emulated in software every day. But how many soft synths were made into hardware, because their sound is unique and irreplaceable.

Steampipe is one that where made from SW to HW and there are many synths these days that are released as HW and later ported over to SW from Arturia, Korg and Roland and if you own the latest Yamaha Montage you can also get the Montage Vst now