Let‘s speculate about 6.0

[BazJacuzzi]

On that note, it's a lot buggier than it used to be and "we fixed the bugs" isn't the strap line they probably want for 6, so I'm hoping for a 5.4 that does that first.

[strovoknights]

When do you think the next version of Bitwig will be released?
Bitwig typically takes about six months to release a 0.1 update.
For a major 1.0 version update, the development period tends to be even longer.
If the announced enhancements to the Arranger and Piano Roll are part of a major 1.0 update, would that mean Bitwig 6.0 is likely to be released around the end of this year?

[ere2learn]

When do you think the next version of Bitwig will be released?

Since 2017, every major release has been every 2 years, 5.0 was released in '23 so 6 could be this year, the highest point releases in those 2 year cycles was a .5

[drsyncenstein]

To Vroteg everything he said himself was 100% true. Anyone disagreeing was either wrong, blind, stupid or a fanboy. After a while it does not matter anymore what a person with such an attitude says. It just becomes noise.

[questionaire]

This Bitwig forum is near dead really after one day there is only one complaint being made about Vroteg

[SpaceCadetOnLeave]

The KVR bitwig toxicity isn't only from "The Vrotegs". It also is from the pedantic fanboy professional KVR-posters (have you seen the post amount of pdxindy for example? ) and the way they treat questions, frustrations and experiences of normal users, just venting to try and start conversations with fellow Bitwig users to learn.
This groups weird views and actions based on their misplaced feeling of superiority, on how a person has to post questions or criticism here, explains how things can escalate.
Look how most of the escalations ending in banning almost always start with mocking a persons opinion or experience.
They are bullies on a school playground. They live on KVR, it's their KVR Bitwig.

On reddit or discord there is not that much pedantic noise telling others how to behave.

Also, Vroteg should have moved on way earlier.

[perpetual3]

The KVR bitwig toxicity isn't only from "The Vrotegs". It also is from the pedantic fanboy professional KVR-posters (have you seen the post amount of pdxindy for example? ) and the way they treat questions, frustrations and experiences of normal users, just venting to try and start conversations with fellow Bitwig users to learn.
This groups weird views and actions based on their misplaced feeling of superiority, on how a person has to post questions or criticism here, explains how things can escalate.
Look how most of the escalations ending in banning almost always start with mocking a persons opinion or experience.
They are bullies on a school playground. They live on KVR, it's their KVR Bitwig.

On reddit or discord there is not that much pedantic noise telling others how to behave.

Also, Vroteg should have moved on way earlier.

I don’t think I’ve ever read pdxindy mocking someone or being toxic. I don’t see him being a bully and I would need an example of a so called fanboy being a bully to agree with your assessment. Vroteg was over the top. HE escalated every interaction. Anyway…

[pdxindy]

I don’t think I’ve ever read pdxindy mocking someone or being toxic. I don’t see him being a bully and I would need an example of a so called fanboy being a bully to agree with your assessment. Vroteg was over the top. HE escalated every interaction. Anyway…

The term fanboy is a generic personal insult that has no actual meaning.

This forum could use some moderation. Split it into a couple sections with one of them being the complaint section. There people who want to endlessly complain can do so. Of course the only way they would stay there is by enforced moderation because what is really going on is something else.

If people want to transfer their own unhappiness onto an external target, they usually want an audience. But this is an audio forum, not a place where we all agreed to be the targets of others trauma so they can stumble around trying heal themselves.

[questionaire]

Recently i bought a Kemper player profiler for obvious guitar playing and bass guitar tones. And what a fresh air to be on that site/forum. Knowledgeable people who help each other out with a lot of respect for each and everybody.
Yes that forum is moderated really well. Whe the point is being made the topic before it starts in endless discussions will be closed by the moderators.

To complain again i really can not understand why Bitwig is so harsh with neglecting the wish for a Moderated Forum.....i can not understand why it is to stupid for words.....

Why the hell on earth does Bitwig not take their users more serious its hould be a part of their product service

[SpaceCadetOnLeave]

I don’t think I’ve ever read pdxindy mocking someone or being toxic. I don’t see him being a bully and I would need an example of a so called fanboy being a bully to agree with your assessment. Vroteg was over the top. HE escalated every interaction. Anyway…

The term fanboy is a generic personal insult that has no actual meaning.

I don't feel it's an insult, maybe an observation, but hey it's just a forum; you shouldn't feel attacked that easily.

This forum could use some moderation. Split it into a couple sections with one of them being the complaint section. There people who want to endlessly complain can do so. Of course the only way they would stay there is by enforced moderation because what is really going on is something else.

I wouldn't know about that, this is vague as f*k, who are "people" and what is "endless" ? Who decides this? People living in forums or actual musicians? Macro dynamic farmers or people eating hamburgers?

If people want to transfer their own unhappiness onto an external target, they usually want an audience. But this is an audio forum, not a place where we all agreed to be the targets of others trauma so they can stumble around trying heal themselves.

I don't think it's healthy and appropriate to talk about people you don't know like this, especially on a software forum.

This biased attitude and passive aggressiveness, is exactly what I was talking about.
This mode pushes starting topic (new forum users) posters in a self defense sequence, and some won't give in.
The way some of those are treated inhere is just cold, and only (it looks that way) just to feel good as a group, (maybe even hoping to be accepted to that group).

[SpaceCadetOnLeave]

Why the hell on earth does Bitwig not take their users more serious its hould be a part of their product service

The first hysterical rant I saw inhere was from a Bitwig dev Claes.

[BobDog]

The KVR bitwig toxicity isn't only from "The Vrotegs". It also is from the pedantic fanboy professional KVR-posters (have you seen the post amount of pdxindy for example? ) and the way they treat questions, frustrations and experiences of normal users, just venting to try and start conversations with fellow Bitwig users to learn.
This groups weird views and actions based on their misplaced feeling of superiority, on how a person has to post questions or criticism here, explains how things can escalate.
Look how most of the escalations ending in banning almost always start with mocking a persons opinion or experience.
They are bullies on a school playground. They live on KVR, it's their KVR Bitwig.

On reddit or discord there is not that much pedantic noise telling others how to behave.

Also, Vroteg should have moved on way earlier.

pdxlindy is always knowledgable and helpful, which is more than I can say about you!

[coroknight]

I thought vroteg was just another complaining user until he said the mseg editor was “screaming for an update” because of an extra couple clicks. That’s just ridiculous and troll-y.

[machinesworking]

vroteg got what he gave. This isn't any more toxic than most public forums, and every single forum dedicated to a specific DAW has the Defenders of the Faith™ and angry possibly unintentional trolls who won't move on. Then there's people who make claims about a DAW and the developers that have no basis in fact. Bitwig development moves faster than any other DAW I own, just not by some ridiculous amount that would compromise stability.

Yes, the Defenders of the Faith™ will piss on people bringing up concerns about development, business strategy etc. it's what they do. Yes, the constant complaining by people who have moved on, or will not accept things the way they are can be exhausting, it's also what they do.

I think humans in general concentrate on outliers in a way that's unhealthy based on perceived threats and animal nature. For instance, speculation about 6 isn't happening here, it's all about this drama.


Personally I haven't updated my plan, Push 3 standalone is now a viable solution to live performance since the new beta with time signatures and Follow Actions, so I unfortunately get more tied to Live by owning it. In some ways I wish Bitwig developers hadn't left Ableton and instead had executed a coup and revamped Live. A world where Bitwig had all the decades of development from Live but the UX and future forward momentum is a nice world to think about. Push Bitwig standalone, reasonable key shortcuts, a stable Max/MSP, Bitwig with Jitter etc.

[BobDog]

I think it depends on how you do it, and the direction.

I look at it as I prefer someone who is hopelessly positive over someone that is hopelessly negative.

Also the way they then project these ideas; aggressive displays on either front are not good, but the negative side always seem a bit more aggressive to me.

What I do think though is when you get a few very negative forum users (mostly being egged on by the chief disrupter) then others (shrinking violets, fanboys, workerati, snowflakes, defenders of the faith, whatever derogatory term is being used) don't bother coming anymore.