Bye bye VST2

[wikter]

Both VST2 and WW2 are over.

Bad News for you, Japan & Rusia never signed that contract. Kuryles.

Japan and the Soviet Union ended their formal state of war with the Soviet–Japanese Joint Declaration of 1956 but did not sign a peace treaty. During talks leading to the joint declaration, the Soviet Union offered Japan the two smaller islands of Shikotan and the Habomai Islands in exchange for Japan renouncing all claims to the two bigger islands of Iturup and Kunashir, but Japan declined the offer. This disagreement between the two-island offer made by the Soviet Union and Japan's demand of regaining two bigger islands as well became the cornerstone for continuation of the dispute into the present day

[jamcat]

And there were some isolated islands in the South Pacific where Japanese holdouts were still fighting WWII 29 years later.

They set a open, public Standard defending islands? MIDI, electricity, meters, dollars, etc...
Standards has this unfancy thing that make them survive their creators...

Not if no one supports them.

My most used plugins don't even support VST2. Or CLAP for that matter. But that goes without saying.

I really don't understand this fantasy world some people live in where VST2 is coming back, or where CLAP experiences widespread adoption. I live in the real world, and in that world I wouldn't be able to use the software I make music with, without VST3.

Other than Black Rooster and literal abandonware, I don't know of any plugins that don't support VST3. Including plugins from CLAP's own developers and biggest boosters.

[Super Piano Hater 64]

How does this compare to AAX or AU?

I'm not aware of any legal threats demanding that developers cease support or distribution of software written for obsolete/deprecated AU or AAX APIs. If you have examples of this behavior, feel free to present it.

Is Steinberg somehow being more draconian?

Yes.

To elaborate, Steinberg has displayed both malice and incompetence. They fell ass-backwards into the position of having built an industry standard technology, and then spent 20 years screwing around before deciding they had a problem they should do something about. During that time, they could never manage to make VST3 more attractive than VST2 to third party developers (for many, many reasons; the sheer volume of different things that went wrong is PhD thesis material).

When they finally started to take action, they found themselves with a conundrum. If they dropped support for VST2 in Cubendo, that would cede a competitive advantage to hosts that continued supporting VST2. If, on the other hand, they could somehow kill off the whole VST2 ecosystem, then that competitive advantage would disappear, and musicians would surely switch to the DAW with the best support for the new industry standard with the bigger number in the name. So, out of fear and myopia, they started revoking licenses and making legal threats. The rest is history.

[jamcat]

How does this compare to AAX or AU?

I'm not aware of any legal threats demanding that developers cease support or distribution of software written for obsolete/deprecated AU or AAX APIs. If you have examples of this behavior, feel free to present it.

I haven't seen a single plugin that used to come in RTAS have an option to install the RTAS version anymore. The RTAS versions were simply erased from existence and replaced with AAX.

Why is that?

Avid doesn't have to threaten legal action because it's already in the contract. Meanwhile, VST2 versions are still being included alongside VST3 versions.

So it doesn't seem like your theories hold up whatsoever.

[wikter]

Meanwhile, VST2 versions are still being included alongside VST3 versions.

So it doesn't seem like your theories hold up whatsoever.

Contradiction.
Hold up guys.

[Super Piano Hater 64]

I haven't seen a single plugin that used to come in RTAS have an option to install the RTAS version anymore. The RTAS versions were simply erased from existence and replaced with AAX.

Why is that?

To the best of my limited knowledge, RTAS could only be used in ProTools versions 10.x and earlier. There are third-party AAX hosts (that most people have never heard of) but I'm not aware of any third-party RTAS hosts, and at least one developer considered the whole product category impossible (for vague reasons). So, as far as I can tell, all they needed to do to kill RTAS plugins was to drop support for them and stop selling old versions of ProTools.

Avid doesn't have to threaten legal action because it's already in the contract.

The VST3 contract is the basis for most (if not all) of Steinberg's anti-VST2 legal threats.

Meanwhile, VST2 versions are still being included alongside VST3 versions.

I can think of a couple developers off the top of my head who essentially gave Steinberg the finger and went on distributing VST2. Some of them have since received C&D orders. They might feel like chiming in here so I'll let them speak for themselves.

I live in the real world

Sometimes I wonder.

[jamcat]

Meanwhile, VST2 versions are still being included alongside VST3 versions.

I can think of a couple developers off the top of my head who essentially gave Steinberg the finger and went on distributing VST2. Some of them have since received C&D orders. They might feel like chiming in here so I'll let them speak for themselves.

You seem to be operating under some delusions. A majority of developers are still distributing VST2 versions alongside their VST3 versions. I know this, just like everyone else here knows it, because I install new updates almost every day as MyKVR alerts me to their release, and more often than not I have to uncheck the VST2 box. And also the AAX box. Rarely is there a CLAP box to uncheck, and there is never ever an RTAS box, and hasn't been for years.

So why are a majority of developers (not just "a couple") still including VST2 versions? Because they still can. But there is some vague language in the VST3 SDK license that they may one day be asked to stop. Or not. So far it hasn't happened.

I'm not even sure what we're debating here anymore. That yes, VST3 is the dominant industry standard, and yes, there are more plugins available for VST3 than any other plugin format in the history of the world, and yes, every remotely relevant developer puts out VST3 versions, but somehow Steinberg are bad guys that the world is rising up against, despite all evidence to the contrary?

[wikter]

But there is some vague language in the license that they may one day be asked to stop. Or not.

Read the Steinberg license!!!

there are more plugins available for VST3 than any other plugin format in the history of the world

Are you a KVR user?.... Let's check.
Nah...
9400 VST2
7980 VST3
Sorry again.

[Super Piano Hater 64]

I'm starting to suspect this guy is secretly a piano.

[wikter]

I'm starting to suspect this guy is secretly a piano.

We say BOTARATE.
Someone Who spreads disimformation.

[jamcat]

But there is some vague language in the license that they may one day be asked to stop. Or not.

Read the Steinberg license!!!

So then why are most developers still including VST2 versions to this day?
That doesn't jibe with your claims.

And to preclude that possibility, all a developer would have to do is not develop VST3 plugins. Which you guys would rather not exist, anyways. And yet they all have ignored your cries and have signed the VST3 SDK anyways. This thread was started by Luca, who chose VST3 over VST2 (despite it really not being necessary.) So what's the problem? You just want to howl at progress and rage against VST3?

9400 VST2
7980 VST3

If someone really cared to do an exhaustive review, they would find way more than 1500 VST2 plugins are abandonware and no longer available, with a significant number never even making it to 64-bit. So those aren't at all relevant, are they?

Of those VST2 plugins that have survived, 99.9% of them are available as VST3, and there are many VST3 plugins around now that were never, and will never be VST2. And that list is growing. Plugins like everything UADx.

There are more VST3 plugins being supported RIGHT NOW than VST2 plugins at any given time.

[wikter]

Did you read that license? Sorry. Can't discuss opinions.
Anyway, VST2 for thousands not included in KVR database, I only included 2 of my 30+ crappy Synthedit creations that keep working fine even in 32bit versions. Who needs 64bit plugins? Go pay 15€ for jbridge and start enjoying Hartmsnn Neuron, Vemberaudio Shortcircuit and some gems never released in the 64bit world.
Really... Ashamed of so easy statements, no solid arguments.

[jamcat]

Ah. So you're not only anti-VST3, you're also anti-64-bit... because you made SynthEdit plugins 15 years ago and that’s where you’re stuck. It's all starting to make sense now.

[wikter]

Ah. So you're not only anti-VST3, you're also anti-64-bit... because you made SynthEdit plugins 15 years ago and that’s where you’re stuck. It's all starting to make sense now.

Don't feed the troll... Just read him that license.

[jamcat]

I guess the hundreds of VST3 developers who are still including VST2 versions haven’t read that license either…