Bye bye VST2

[wikter]

Did you?

[whyterabbyt]

Both VST2 and WW2 are over.

So is VST3, and your remote little island will have to accept that soon or later. It has not succeeded for any reason other than legal bullying. Even though you are still denying it, (because of course you are) the current prevalence of VST3 is predominantly down to Steinberg's legal action.
On the other hand, unforced takeup of its replacement since introduction has been faster per year than takeup of VST3 was over the same period.

And its replacement is technically superior, which was your (parroted) justification for the replacement of VST3 over VST2. Your own argument for VST3 over VST2 did state that if there's something superior then it should be used, after all.

[Michael L]

When there’s a choice I install VST2 because it’s simpler code and more stable / less prone to problems.
Stability is a basic requirement for me.
YMMV

[mi-os]

Has the VST3 keying and poo smearing already started? (asking for a friend)

[mothra]

Has the VST3 keying and poo smearing already started? (asking for a friend)

Page 1 as usual!

[MrJubbly]

My most used plugins don't even support VST2. Or CLAP for that matter. But that goes without saying.

What also goes without saying, is that they will also support CLAP ... So long as your "most used" plugins still continue to be in active development over the next few years.

Also, you're saying that you don't include any Fabfilter or u-he among some of your "most used" plugins?

You're missing out. They're really great and all plugins from those two awesome developers are available in CLAP.

Perhaps, it would be incorrect to presume that your apparent apprehension to an impending widespread CLAP adoption, stems from being a user of a Steinberg-branded DAW?

If not, whatever logical reason would there be? Surely, you would simply be completely neutral on the matter, not caring either way, whether or not CLAP becomes the new industry standard over the coming years.

I believe certain developers are still currently playing sheepish (understandably so), in order to play nice with Steinberg and their VST3 licences therewith. But I feel most plugin developers can read the room and realise that sooner rather than later, CLAP will replace VST3 as the industry standard audio plugin format of choice. Until then however, they'll continue to play coy, with one eye on their current Steinberg VST3 licence agreements.

However, once most of the major DAW hosts fully support CLAP (and we're almost there already, in terms of the most popular non-Steinberg DAWs), in addition to native CLAP support for JUCE, which I believe will be added in JUCE v9 ... Then you have the right environment for the floodgates to open, to a degree where even CLAP doubters will realise this is the case.

The main reason people will switch is because CLAP is simply a better option than VST3 in every metric. So it will just make sense for most users to favour it over VST3.

Of course VST3 formats for plugins will continue to be made available and updated, so long as Steinberg doesn't decide to discontinue the format and licence agreements thereof. But for most people within around the next five years, CLAP will have overtaken VST3 in popularity and VST3 (much like its older sibling) will be regarded as a "legacy format."

By then, only required for purposes of backward-compatibility with older projects. And that is only if an alternative VST3 to CLAP automatic migration solution has not become widely available ... which it probably will be. And when it is ... We may have another forum topic like this, only it will be titled "Bye Bye VST3"

[jamcat]

What also goes without saying, is that they will also support CLAP ... So long as your "most used" plugins still continue to be in active development over the next few years.

It seems you misunderstood a lot of what I said. Allow me to clarify. I meant that my most used plugins don't support VST2. UADx and TONEX are my most used plugins. None of them support VST2 (or CLAP, of course.) They support VST3, AU, and AAX.

Some small handful of plugins that I use support CLAP. Audiority does, and I own most all of the guitar pedals. But I have no reason to install the CLAP versions, so I don't. Same for AAX and AU. And as everyone knows from the thread title, Audiority no longer supports VST2 either.

Also, you're saying that you don't include any Fabfilter or u-he among some of your "most used" plugins?

You're missing out. They're really great and all plugins from those two awesome developers are available in CLAP.

No, I do not belong to that cult on KVR. Which also probably explains my lack of zealotry for CLAP.

I did try the u-he Twangström spring reverb, and was thoroughly unimpressed. I found it to be one of the absolute worst spring emulations around, sounding nothing like an actual spring reverb. I don't understand you people who worship at the alter of u-he. Is it because Urs talks to you on the internet?

Perhaps, it would be incorrect to presume that your apparent apprehension to an impending widespread CLAP adoption, stems from being a user of a Steinberg-branded DAW?

If not, whatever logical reason would there be? Surely, you would simply be completely neutral on the matter, not caring either way, whether or not CLAP becomes the new industry standard over the coming years.

I use PreSonus Studio One Pro 7. It supports CLAP, but I've never tested it and have no CLAP plugins installed. I am indifferent to CLAP. I see it as redundant and unnecessary. I don't have "apprehension" to widespread CLAP adoption, I have extreme doubt. I've explained why many times over the years. And over those same years, very few of the plugins I own have adopted CLAP support. There is no incentive for most developers to do so, which is why they haven't. That is also my argument for why few will, or have.

I believe certain developers are still currently playing sheepish (understandably so), in order to play nice with Steinberg and their VST3 licences therewith. But I feel most plugin developers can read the room and realise that sooner rather than later, CLAP will replace VST3 as the industry standard audio plugin format of choice. Until then however, they'll continue to play coy, with one eye on their current Steinberg VST3 licence agreements.

I believe every part of that is delusional and a clear sign of cult worship. No one is afraid Steinberg will do anything to their VST3 licenses if they support CLAP. Or AAX. Or AU. The only difference is they actually do support AAX and AU. They support AAX and AU because those formats give them access to Pro Tools and Logic users. There are no users they lose access to by not supporting CLAP, which is why they don't bother. Again, it's that incentive thing. Money talks, bullshit walks.

However, once most of the major DAW hosts fully support CLAP (and we're almost there already, in terms of the most popular non-Steinberg DAWs), in addition to native CLAP support for JUCE, which I believe will be added in JUCE v9 ... Then you have the right environment for the floodgates to open, to a degree where even CLAP doubters will realise this is the case.

Your wild-eyed zealotry is showing again. I do agree that if JUCE implements CLAP we may see an uptick in CLAP support, perhaps even a substantial one. It will depend on how much extra effort is involved. If it's just checking a CLAP box, then we're good. But that would only be among the pool of developers using JUCE. The largest developers use in-house frameworks and still will have no incentive to support CLAP. Universal Audio uses JUCE, so maybe they will check the CLAP box.

The main reason people will switch is because CLAP is simply a better option than VST3 in every metric. So it will just make sense for most users to favour it over VST3.

You really overestimate the typical user. And the typical plugin. I think for the vast number of plugins, users wouldn't tell any difference, and few would care. Most users aren't all that sophisticated and probably install all available formats. That's not going to change either way.

I won't bother to quote the rest of your post because it's just more wild-eyed zealous fantasizing.

[wikter]

The fact is we can use whatever plug-in format we decide to. Even VST3 when there's no other chance.
It's a shame to read such statements from a disguising user that never took care of what he uses farther from what he see & reads from mass media.
We don't need to convince such a hard stone of being moderate & read licenses, there's a lot of threads about the idea but he did not took the time to read anything other than the phrase programmed in his head: VST3 IS the BEST.
Hey jamcat, VST3 IS the BEST for you, get a DAW and enjoy your time, and from time to time, please try to read VST3 license.

[jamcat]

Why am I a disguising user?
Is it the cat suit?

[Sound_Bear]

VST2 guy here (because VAZ Modular). If anyone is able and willing to share the latest installer for Relab VSR-24 that included 32-bit VST2 or VST3 (lower than v1.1.0), please DM me. I can reciprocate with the latest 32-bit-including installers for Exponential Audio Phoenix and TC Electronic VSS3 that are not officially provided anymore (but can still be activated with recent licences).

More on topic, I've been pondering UAD Signature Edition 2 since it's absurdly cheap atm, but the combo of VST3 only, download manager and dongle requirement simply makes it less convincing than it could be compared to other large bundles. As long as I can keep using brands like Melda, Blue Cat, Acon, TDR etc. that allow me to mix old and new projects without hassle. Even Sonnox, SSL, Eventide and other big names still offer "legacy" installers. I don't know if UA maybe just missed Steinberg's window for retaining VST2 when they started their native line, but in any case and totally undogmatically speaking it's just less attractive this way.

[Michael L]

Why am I a disguising user?
Is it the cat suit?

Apparently he's upset you don't wash it between rowdy furry parties.

It's a shame to read such statements from a disguising user that never took care of what he uses

[jamcat]

Your own argument for VST3 over VST2 did state that if there's something superior then it should be used, after all.

That isn’t exactly my argument. My argument is that VST2 had inherent shortcomings which negatively impacted the actual usage of plugins in concrete ways that mattered, and VST3 addressed those shortcomings, resulting in more capable plugins and better mission critical performance. And that is the reason why VST3 exists.

Some examples from my own actual every day use:

• Adding more multitrack outputs to MODO DRUM on the fly as I build out my drum mix.
• Sample accurate automation on SWAM Solo Strings, so that bowing articulations can be precisely crafted and will sound the same, every time they play.

Maybe these don't matter to you, but they’ve made a huge difference to me. They make the difference between ‘can’ and ‘cannot’. And they aren’t available for CLAP.

Yes, it is self-evident that CLAP offers some features that VST3 doesn’t. But they’re pretty niche, and I can’t see many of the plugins I use having a use for them. So for my purposes, CLAP and VST3 would be the same. So while you could say for some use cases CLAP is superior to VST3, it wouldn’t be for mine. But I don’t begrudge anyone who might get that use out of them.

My point is simply that for all the mud some of you sling at VST3, every plugin supports it already. Right now. But that's far from the case for CLAP. I can’t imagine very many people are using very many CLAP plugins in their actual audio projects. The plugins simply don’t exist. What they’re ACTUALLY using every day is VST3, just like me. It is a practical matter.

All of this CLAP trap is theoretical and aspirational. It’s all dreaming about its potential possibly maybe one day. But for now, I don’t see any time in the foreseeable future where all of the hundreds of plugins that I have spent real money on and actually use right now, every day, are available in CLAP format. But if that changes, we’ll talk.

[wikter]

User since 2019.
VST started in 1997. A long history, larger than the VST3 license.
How van a usar from 2019 learn the things that happened 20 years before..??

[Michael L]

User since 2019.
VST started in 1997. A long history, larger than the VST3 license.
How van a usar from 2019 learn the things that happened 20 years before..??

1. Ouija Board
2. DeLorean
3. Wormhole
4. Yoda

[jamcat]

Maybe because I've been using VST plugins since Cubase VST 3.5 in 1997..?

Though no professional 3rd party plugins supported VST at the time. Those were all DX.
VST plugins were mostly just freeware made by students, hobbyists, and weirdos like Vellocet.

VST didn't really take off until Steinberg dropped support for DX plugins in Cubase.