One Synth Challenge #193 - Thorn by DS Audio (exponent1 Wins!)

[emikaela]

I joined OSC not long ago, and I’ve already felt that this is a rather closed circle. Comments like yours, suggesting that new participants are part of a 'phase' that will blow over, do not exactly make newcomers feel welcome. That’s a real shame, because OSC could be something much more open and inclusive.

Also, let’s be fair: the debate about rules has been going on for years, long before any of the recent newcomers arrived, so blaming new people for that as well feels quite misplaced.

Out of curiosity, I looked back at the comments on the mix (VCA Song), and honestly, they mostly came from long-time OSC participants. So blaming ‘new musicians’ feels not only unfair, but also inaccurate.

I was truly hoping to qualify for a prize this month, especially for Lunaris 2, which I love. I didn’t make it, but seeing how much effort I put into my track, my wife decided to reward me anyway. So I was able to get it on sale yesterday, and that felt like a happy ending.

That said, I’m stepping away from OSC now. The atmosphere I found here hasn’t been as welcoming or inspiring as I had hoped.

Still, I want to sincerely thank @RichardSemper for all the hard work organizing OSC every month, especially while having to endure all the recurring debates and complaints. It’s a huge task, and I truly appreciate the dedication.

thank you for letting us know. i imagine it would be easier in this situation to just quietly fade away, and i wonder how many before you who have chosen to do so for similar reasons.

i think you have a point, though i'm not sure how actionable it is. it's impossible to create a community that fits everyone, but we can do better to try. i find it telling that the responses to "you could be more open and inclusive" mostly are some variation of "no actually we're great already". let's try to learn something from this.

i really liked your track for whatever that's worth, it was in my personal top 5.

[empphryio]

I do think we're pretty inclusive. I don’t think me stating that is dismissive. Please do share what you or anyone else thinks we need to do to be more inclusive.

[67maxx]

...

[PeterBPL]

I do think we're pretty inclusive. I don’t think me stating that is dismissive. Please do share what you or anyone else thinks we need to do to be more inclusive.

Well, if I may - as community or as OSC? As community - sure, community is inclusive, always welcome new members, "more is better" etc. Problem may be OSC - was 193 of them already, every OSC takes full month, 15 days for voting etc. It means that instead of being fast & pleasant fun, it becomes full time job. I think diversity (not just about different synths) is what is missing. Imagine that someone making music as a hobbyst (like myself) - so if I want to take OSC more serious, I supposed to stop making anything else, but made one song per month trying to take the best place. That's why I am not really part of community (not entirely) but participate rarely - because I am looking for fast and pleasant distraction, not for complex competition. Don't let me wrong - nothing wrong with OSC, but maybe for some people may be not as fun as for regular participants.

And, as far as I see, no matter what synth is used, people always made the same. It's not like someone can get to know the character of a synthesizer by listening to works from OSC. Yes, you can be surprised what people can squeeze out of some synths (the "wow" effect), but in the end it doesn't really matter which synth will be the synth of the month - the only difference will be how hard someone had to work to achieve the same effect. As part of the discussion on Discord I threw out the idea of ​​using the free MODO DRUM CS as something that would maybe force people to approach it a bit differently and do not the same thing, but something completely different (solo on drums). But of course there were questions about whether you could do some tinkering there to get a sound that could be used as... So it doesn't matter that it would be a drum plugin - let's make it a violin and double bass.

Is nice to use different plugins, it's fun from time to time, but have no sense in the long run, if the effect is to be always similar.

[67maxx]

...

[doctorbob]

Re: OSC tracks sounding similar no matter what the synth. This is true to some extent, and I am guilty as charged here as well.

I do try to change genres and step into different areas, which is not always easy. However, whatever I do try, I usually get the comment that this is "the dB sound"! In a good way I hope. What I have tried to do on some challenges is to try to make something the synth was NOT designed for - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't and I still come halfway!

I'm sure no-one would understand my 1960's synth tracks made up of beeps and boops and tape splices!

dB

[Taron]

Oh man, you are really forcing me to respond, @67maxx. My post hit you hard not because of what I wrote, but because what you chose to read out of it.
I did not write or mean any of what you interpreted out of it. There was no offense made or meant.

I was speculating how a certain topic could've gained relevance again. Not criticizing the topic nor complaining about the speculated reason for it.

And all of that for the sake of hoping to moderate the distress of someone, who really didn't deserve any of it.

I love musicians and love to meet new musicians. I love our technical exchanges, impressions, ideas when it's all about and around music. If at any point anything I say gives any other impression it has to be by accident.

[67maxx]

...

[Taron]

I’ve always been a fighter, someone who tries to speak up and push for change, but over time, I’ve realized that most of the time, it’s just not worth it. Things rarely change, and holding on too tightly only brings more frustration.

I really tried to integrate into OSC and find a place here, but it didn’t quite work out the way I hoped. That’s okay. Life moves on, and so will I.

For now, I’m taking a good break.
No hard feelings, just stepping back with clarity.
Max

All good, Max. I keep taking my fair amounts of breaks from the OSC, too. It's just great to know that it exists and a wonderful place to come back to when all things align properly.

No worries and be sure to know that I'm enjoying your musicality and wouldn't want to miss it! Looking forward to your return whenever you feel like it again!

[SynthDX7]

Congrats to exponent1 for the win

[exponent1]

I just wanted to share my own PoV on this, as a hobbyist musician in my mid 30s, with a full-time job and now a 4 month old baby.

I have mostly felt very welcome in the OSC from the beginning when I was a newcomer (to both music production and OSC). I always welcomed harsh criticism, because that helped me more than the "nice track" comments. After all these years, I still feel that the community is quite warm and welcoming, but I agree that everyone experiences it differently. There are days I feel like an outsider (esp on Discord) and then some very nice people make me feel at home. So please don't take things to heart, not everyone needs to be your friend, nor is everyone your foe.

Well, if I may - as community or as OSC? As community - sure, community is inclusive, always welcome new members, "more is better" etc. Problem may be OSC - was 193 of them already, every OSC takes full month, 15 days for voting etc. It means that instead of being fast & pleasant fun, it becomes full time job. I think diversity (not just about different synths) is what is missing. Imagine that someone making music as a hobbyst (like myself) - so if I want to take OSC more serious, I supposed to stop making anything else, but made one song per month trying to take the best place. That's why I am not really part of community (not entirely) but participate rarely - because I am looking for fast and pleasant distraction, not for complex competition. Don't let me wrong - nothing wrong with OSC, but maybe for some people may be not as fun as for regular participants.

I don't think OSC is as serious as one might think. It's just a challenge on KVR that's hosted by 2 wonderful people and mostly hobbyist musicians participate who share a passion of making music, and the one synth aspect adds the element of difficulty. Sure, some people do put a lot of effort into their tracks, but maybe that's what gives them joy. I see nothing wrong with that.

I believe the full month is available so that it can accommodate everyone who wants to participate. Not everyone works on their entries throughout the month, they find time whenever they can, based on their circumstances. Some do it in 1 sitting, 3 days, or space it out over weekends, or weeknights.

If the OSC would be like a game jam lasting 3-7 days, I personally would never be able to participate. With 30 days, everyone can choose how long they want to spend on their entry, making it very flexible and forgiving IMHO.

Same with voting period lasting 15 days. if I had 1 day to vote, I might be DQ-ed in several rounds as I can't always make time to listen and vote objectively.

So, I'm not really following why the timelines makes it less fun for any participant at all?

In fact, I had stopped being a regular participant long ago. I took two 1-year breaks (2022, 2024) because I simply couldn't make time and/or had low motivation.

And, as far as I see, no matter what synth is used, people always made the same. It's not like someone can get to know the character of a synthesizer by listening to works from OSC. Yes, you can be surprised what people can squeeze out of some synths (the "wow" effect), but in the end it doesn't really matter which synth will be the synth of the month - the only difference will be how hard someone had to work to achieve the same effect.

I do not see anything wrong with making every synth sound the same if one can (without abusive external processing), and IMHO that reflects a certain aspect of skill/understanding of synthesis. I believe this is one of the core ideas and joys (for me personally) of this challenge, the art of synthesis and composing something from our ideas/imagination. I personally always try to make new styles of music each round, I would get really bored if I make the same sound/style every round.

As part of the discussion on Discord I threw out the idea of ​​using the free MODO DRUM CS as something that would maybe force people to approach it a bit differently and do not the same thing, but something completely different (solo on drums). But of course there were questions about whether you could do some tinkering there to get a sound that could be used as... So it doesn't matter that it would be a drum plugin - let's make it a violin and double bass.

Is nice to use different plugins, it's fun from time to time, but have no sense in the long run, if the effect is to be always similar.

I see the merit of this idea and it was done in a few rounds and really like your suggestion! However, why is it a problem if someone wants to be creative with the use of the synth (following the spirit of OSC) and not use the synth the right way and make just drums (what it is meant to be used for)? I think this demonstrates creativity, ingenuity and skill, which should be rewarded in a challenge like this.

That's why I like OSC because there's so much diversity here in terms of tastes, skill, experience, background, etc. There's never a dull round.

[empphryio]

I do think we're pretty inclusive. I don’t think me stating that is dismissive. Please do share what you or anyone else thinks we need to do to be more inclusive.

Well, if I may - as community or as OSC? As community - sure, community is inclusive, always welcome new members, "more is better" etc. Problem may be OSC - was 193 of them already, every OSC takes full month, 15 days for voting etc. It means that instead of being fast & pleasant fun, it becomes full time job. I think diversity (not just about different synths) is what is missing. Imagine that someone making music as a hobbyst (like myself) - so if I want to take OSC more serious, I supposed to stop making anything else, but made one song per month trying to take the best place. That's why I am not really part of community (not entirely) but participate rarely - because I am looking for fast and pleasant distraction, not for complex competition. Don't let me wrong - nothing wrong with OSC, but maybe for some people may be not as fun as for regular participants.

And, as far as I see, no matter what synth is used, people always made the same. It's not like someone can get to know the character of a synthesizer by listening to works from OSC. Yes, you can be surprised what people can squeeze out of some synths (the "wow" effect), but in the end it doesn't really matter which synth will be the synth of the month - the only difference will be how hard someone had to work to achieve the same effect. As part of the discussion on Discord I threw out the idea of ​​using the free MODO DRUM CS as something that would maybe force people to approach it a bit differently and do not the same thing, but something completely different (solo on drums). But of course there were questions about whether you could do some tinkering there to get a sound that could be used as... So it doesn't matter that it would be a drum plugin - let's make it a violin and double bass.

Is nice to use different plugins, it's fun from time to time, but have no sense in the long run, if the effect is to be always similar.

..echoing Exponent who beat me to the comment.
You're free of course to only take a few days. Actually some people do that. I've done that a few times. But if a competition was made that only gave a few days, few would enter, as lots can't manage it.

As to sounding the same, that's like the normal thing a musical artist does right? They like a certain genre. They like certain sounds. They know how to make a certain type of music. They make a bunch of music that fits together on an album. That's not what I personally do. I'm all over the place from month to month. But being inclusive means being OK with either approach. We don't want people to feel bad for sounding more or less the same every month.

[PeterBPL]

As to sounding the same, that's like the normal thing a musical artist does right? They like a certain genre. They like certain sounds. They know how to make a certain type of music. They make a bunch of music that fits together on an album. That's not what I personally do. I'm all over the place from month to month. But being inclusive means being OK with either approach. We don't want people to feel bad for sounding more or less the same every month.

Come on, it's not what I mean. I mean that I think there was a reason to made all that rules (do not using external effects to change synth character too much) especially to show synth character. And I understand that everyone is trying to made as good sound as possible, no matter what synth it is. So at the end if someone wants to made hardcore techno using Lunaris 2 (for example ) - it's ok, even if it wouldn't be how that plugin sounds for real. It feels strange a little. If someone wanted to make a violin out of a drum plugin, it could be perceived in one of two ways - either as a great display of technique, or as an inability to play a good drum solo.

Of course - I'm not without guilt. In Monolith OSC I used chords, but I also decided that I would do it only in part of the song, then abandoning them in favor of single notes/solos. But still feel guilty - it's not what Monolit was made for (either for drums). Sometimes I miss more restrict rules here.

[empphryio]

Oh sorry. You mean perhaps a drum synth should be making drums. A mono synth shouldn't have chords. I see your point. But it could be argued the music producer understands the true character of the synth better than the person who made/named the synth. Considering how bad the stock presets are for some of these synths, could be strongly argued actually.

For example I don't think Cherry Audio realizes they have one of the best karplus strong synths in SEM.

[PeterBPL]

There's nothing wrong with trying to do unusual results, but what's the point of giving people a DIFFERENT synth every month to get the same result? I just don't believe that was the idea of OSC and giving people various synths. Would be much more interesting then if you give people the same synth every month and ask to do something different than before - more diverse.