Plugins always on top. Bug or something else? (Linux Mint)

[MissCherryBomb]

Running latest version of Waveform Free (13.3.13) on Linux Mint.

When a plugin is open, including built in Waveform plugins, the plugin window remains on top of everything. Even if I open a whole other program.

(Image here shows Firefox underneath the plugin window despite Firefox being the current program in focus.)

Plugin Issue.png

This is a problem for many reasons. The main being plugins running through wine will sometimes open a wine popup which freezes the plugin... Underneath the plugin... Can't move the plugin cause it's frozen by the popup. Can't close the popup because the plugin is in the way.

Is there a menu option I missed? Is this a bug? An IntentionalFeature™? I haven't checked if this is purely a Linux issue or if the Windows version does this as well.

[Kott]

It's a "feature". You can override this with your WM settings.

[pough]

When a plugin is open, including built in Waveform plugins, the plugin window remains on top of everything. Even if I open a whole other program.

I don't know about Linux but on Windows this happens for any plugins that are sandboxed. I guess because they are running in a separate thread or something. Anyways, I generally recommend that you only sandbox plugins that need to be sandboxed. I keep sandboxing on but de-select all plugins until they cause problems and then select them specifically.

The window issue remains for any of those sandboxed plugins, but in my case it's only a handful among hundreds so the window problem mostly goes away.

Your mileage may vary. And the issue might be different on Linux, as Kott seems to be saying.

[MissCherryBomb]

It's a "feature". You can override this with your WM settings.

I'm not sure exactly what I'd be trying to override. The cinnamon DE seems severely lacking in the Window Management settings department. All the settings I've looked at imply that it SHOULD make all focused windows be on top even though this is clearly not the case. Though that could just be me misunderstanding what you are trying to explain.

I don't know about Linux but on Windows this happens for any plugins that are sandboxed. I guess because they are running in a separate thread or something. Anyways, I generally recommend that you only sandbox plugins that need to be sandboxed. I keep sandboxing on but de-select all plugins until they cause problems and then select them specifically.

I've tested this and it seems like on the Linux version of Waveform it doesn't matter whether or not the plugins are sandboxed. I unsandboxed all plugins to test and even when they aren't sandboxed the window still remains on top of everything. Unfortunate, but thanks for the suggestion!

[talby]

I assume that You already checked for the most basic:
Waveform SETTINGS - Plugin Windows - Plugin Winsdows = Are unpinned by default

[Kott]

It's a "feature". You can override this with your WM settings.

I'm not sure exactly what I'd be trying to override. The cinnamon DE seems severely lacking in the Window Management settings department. All the settings I've looked at imply that it SHOULD make all focused windows be on top even though this is clearly not the case. Though that could just be me misunderstanding what you are trying to explain.

Yeah, I don't know about Cinnamon. In KWin it's possible to assign properties for windows matching some pattern.
As Talby wrote there is an option in Setting - General - Plugin Windows. Maybe it works in Cinnamon (but never forked for me).

[guigui-compo]

Same problem as the original post here on XFCE on Manjaro. It does not happen with Firefox window but with explorer windows inside the plugins (they appear behind the plugin's window). It's even worse with Hyperion synth with as the main windows to add nodes appears behind the plugin's window and so it makes this synth unsable on Waveform.
This happens even with non sandboxed plugins, pinned or unpinned windows (does not change anything to the problem even when disabling the "pinned windows" General setting in Waveform).

@Kott: do you have some examples of settings you set with KWin to workaround the issue so that I can try to do the same (if I can) with XFCE ?

[talby]

I have tested it today again and also run into issues concerning windows to not overlay as expected. I'll this weekend take my time and upload a bug report.

[Kott]

I set "Force" to "Keep Above" for the kdialog in Special Window Parameter in KDE's System Settings. It helps with file dialogs.

Screenshot_20250530_173002.jpg

Also I added a KWin hotkey Win+Z to switch this option, it helps in any other cases:

Screenshot_20250530_173424.jpg

So, it's not perfect but better than default .

I tried to disable "Keep above" for all plugins, but this is more inconvenient: if you click outside the plugin's window (on the main Waveform pane for example) then it goes below.

[Kott]

I'll this weekend take my time and upload a bug report.

It was reported several times IIRC. And I'm afraid it won't be fixed until the JUCE got a complete X11 WM specification support, which is doubtfully also, because this spec is a huge mess:)

[talby]

I set "Force" to "Keep Above" for the kdialog in Special Window Parameter in KDE's System Settings. It helps with file dialogs.

There is always the alternative way in KDE Plasma to right-click in the task-bar on the icon for the window of interest and from the context menu select for instance "More --> Keep Above Others" or whatever other behavior is temporarily wished.
In below attached screenshot the KDE File Dialog window appears in the task-bar with title "Please enter the name of t..." on the icon and above it you see the popup window accessed by a right-click on the icon:

Screenshot_20250531_141027.png

[Kott]

Sure there are options, like Alt+F3 for active Window's menu in KWin.

[guigui-compo]

Thanks a lot for all your answers, they helped me to find some kind of workaround with XFCE. The equivalent I found of "Keep Above Others" is "Alway on Top" in XFCE (by right clicking on a window's name in the taskbar for example).

I have been able to quite solve the problem with Hyperion synth as the "Select Node" window appears on the task bar and then I have to right click on it and select "Alwasy on Top" (or use Alt + F12 on the keyboard). Unfortunately the "Always on Top" is not saved when I recall the "Select Node" window again from Hyperion so I have to set it everytime...not ideal for the workflow but it works and I can add new nodes in the synth.

Less luck while launching Wine explorer windows inside the plugins because the windows does not appears in the taskbar and the "Alway on Top" option is greyed when I am able to grab the window and right click on the title bar

I'll this weekend take my time and upload a bug report.

It was reported several times IIRC. And I'm afraid it won't be fixed until the JUCE got a complete X11 WM specification support, which is doubtfully also, because this spec is a huge mess:)

So sad to read about that and it explains why I don't have this issue with Carla, Mixbus or Bitwig . Can we hope this would be better one day with JUCE if using Wayland instead of X11/Xorg ?