u-he @ Superbooth 25 - Zebra 3, Uhbik 2, Cen2rion, CVilization

[pierb]

If every conceivable feature were available at launch, Zebra3 would never come out.

I agree but Zebra 2 has had a sequencer for 15+ years. Heck all U-He synths have at least an arp or some sort of sequencer like Bazille. Repro 5 is the exception but it makes sense since Repro 1 has it.

I don't know how much effort it would be to port the feature from Hive... but probably 30-40% of my presets for soundsets use the arp/sequencer feature of Zebra 2.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I agree but Zebra 2 has had a sequencer for 15+ years. Heck all U-He synths have at least an arp or some sort of sequencer like Bazille. Repro 5 is the exception but it makes sense since Repro 1 has it.

I don't know how much effort it would be to port the feature from Hive... but probably 30-40% of my presets for soundsets use the arp/sequencer feature of Zebra 2.

If you push back the release of Z3 to 2026 I will be so mad at you!

Just kidding! Sort of.

[sl23]

I bought the uhbik quite some time ago now, just as a mention of v2 coming out. I'm really impressed at their new features, but most of all that I can upgrade for free. Thank you for that.

If there's one thing I hope you never do with your plugins it's to lose the whole portable set up. That makes it so much easier to keep it all backed up.

I'm still on my mission to purchase all your plugins, but I'm saving for parts to build a new PC first. By then zebra 3 should be ready to purchase.

Thank you to all at u-he! One of the best developers, best customer service and best plugins around.

[pdxindy]

If every conceivable feature were available at launch, Zebra3 would never come out.

I agree but Zebra 2 has had a sequencer for 15+ years. Heck all U-He synths have at least an arp or some sort of sequencer like Bazille. Repro 5 is the exception but it makes sense since Repro 1 has it.

I don't know how much effort it would be to port the feature from Hive... but probably 30-40% of my presets for soundsets use the arp/sequencer feature of Zebra 2.

That would be awful... put in some generic seq/arp just to have something in there, and then users all save presets and then we're all stuck with it from then on. That's a terrible long term outcome.

One of the great things about Z3 is it's a fresh start, where everything can be re-imagined. That takes time and Z3 has many new fresh ideas and possibilities... and we will get something new and juicy on the seq/arp front eventually.

I'm really glad that the u-he crew aren't tossing old bits into Z3 just to fulfill a checklist.

[Shiek927]

If every conceivable feature were available at launch, Zebra3 would never come out.

I agree but Zebra 2 has had a sequencer for 15+ years. Heck all U-He synths have at least an arp or some sort of sequencer like Bazille. Repro 5 is the exception but it makes sense since Repro 1 has it.

I don't know how much effort it would be to port the feature from Hive... but probably 30-40% of my presets for soundsets use the arp/sequencer feature of Zebra 2.

Once more, it'll happen, just later. We've been waiting for Zebra3 since 2012: it's about time to release this thing

Zebra3 will undoubtedly have as much of a long lifespan as Zebra2. Ages for all sorts of requested features to slowly come to fruition.

[Urs]

Zebra 3 comes without a sequencer, nor an arpeggiator.

That's disappointing.

Oh, but you're missing context!

I have edited what you quoted so it fits the context better:

Oh, that's more than fair! Focus on the essentials for now and then you can tap into the community, former Zebra2 users and, naturally, Hans Zimmer, to see where'd they like Zebra3 to organically go next.

That's what we're doing.

Zebra 3 initially comes without a sequencer, nor an arpeggiator. We need presets and example cases based on the performance oriented features to see how any of this integrates with onboard sequencing.

[DrGonzo]

And many users never even touch them.

Probably the majority.

I will add XY mapping for custom sound design projects if the composer requires it but I stopped doing it as a default in my soundsets.

The only thing I know for certain is that the people I've seen using presets with mappings rarely touch them consistently. The only cases where I've seen Macros are being actively used is if they are extremely clear and simple, like what Chalisque said, like for cutoff, or amounts of effects etc, if and they are mapped to the same knobs in preset after preset. Like you know that spacious effects like delay and reverb are always mapped to knob 8. If the Macros jump around from preset to preset - you don't want to look around for the cutoff every time you switch preset.

But for more complex Macros it becomes too non-consistent and people (the ones I've seen) just gloss over them and focus on the sound of the preset instead.

[Fannon]

The macros I found usually useful were: Timbre (this can be quite flexible, could morph several things at once), Brightness (Cutoff), Speed (Decay, LFO, Attack), FX Level (reverb, delay, could be combined). Sometimes also Vibrato/Distortion, bringing in second layer or rhythm.

The value of the macros is that they have musical ranges and usually change more than one thing. I would totally prefer 4 well thought out macros over 8 where the sound designer felt pressure to do "something".

And yes - please let's wait for u-he to give us an awesome arp / sequencer, LATER

[NAD]

I've never found xy pads to be very useful/intuitive, I much prefer macro knobs.

[jtsterays]

I've never found xy pads to be very useful/intuitive, I much prefer macro knobs.

Same.

[GruvSyco]

To me, the only reason the xy pads were never useful is because there never seemed to be a good way to make use of them. I love the idea though. At one point I started working on a joystick design but I really wanted something that could be both auto centering and free floating.

[Sound Author]

I don't know how much effort it would be to port the feature from Hive... but probably 30-40% of my presets for soundsets use the arp/sequencer feature of Zebra 2.

Keeping in mind that Zebra 3 was coded from the ground up with a completely new framework, it was not only unlikely that they could (or would) just copy & paste existing code from somewhere else, but (I imagine) it was also a very deliberate creative decision to pump the brakes on sequencer development for now.

I'll be honest, Zebra 2's sequencer was never my favorite sequencer, and some people I know kinda felt the same way. So, I like to think that a considerable amount of thought will be invested into the new sequencer, and I'm glad they've chosen to circle back to it when they have time to really focus on that.

I'll go even further to say that I'm glad Urs and the team chose to start anew instead of just wedging new features into the existing version, even though I'm sure there were also very specific technical reasons a new framework was necessary. So, the fact that Zebra 3 won't have all its stripes (see what I did there) out of the gate is a good thing in my mind.

[Fannon]

Some thoughts on combining Macros, MIDI Controls and MPE:

Currently there is no dedicated MOD source for MPE timbre and you have to assign Control A to take that role.

This creates potential problems: Many patches are not created for MPE controls and the assignment of Control A may do things that really do not work well with MPE controllers. In such cases, a patch can be unplayable on a MPE control surface and I first have to "fix" it by unassigning / adjusting the modulations or disable MPE on the controller.

Second, not every MPE controller works the same way, especially with Timbre you'll have a very different level of control between let's say a LinnStrument / Ableton Push vs. a Roli Seaboard.

I would prefer if MPE Timbre would be its dedicated mod source and there's no auto-reuse of Control A or default macro. It would be more important to me that it's easy to do my MPE assignments myself on the patches. I would not need / expect MPE patches in the factory library.

(Arturia Synths of older architecture had the same problem, they reused Macro 1 for MPE timbre which leads to the same problems. In their newer synths they fixed it by making MPE timbre a dedicated mod source.)

[audiojunkie]

I've never found xy pads to be very useful/intuitive, I much prefer macro knobs.

They're great for recording your automation live..........but I have no major preference either way.

[Urs]

Some thoughts on combining Macros, MIDI Controls and MPE:

Currently there is no dedicated MOD source for MPE timbre and you have to assign Control A to take that role.

This creates potential problems: Many patches are not created for MPE controls and the assignment of Control A may do things that really do not work well with MPE controllers. In such cases, a patch can be unplayable on a MPE control surface and I first have to "fix" it by unassigning / adjusting the modulations or disable MPE on the controller.

Second, not every MPE controller works the same way, especially with Timbre you'll have a very different level of control between let's say a LinnStrument / Ableton Push vs. a Roli Seaboard.

I would prefer if MPE Timbre would be its dedicated mod source and there's no auto-reuse of Control A or default macro. It would be more important to me that it's easy to do my MPE assignments myself on the patches. I would not need / expect MPE patches in the factory library.

Here's the thing: As you say, different controllers use Timbre in different ways. In Osmose it's The-Pressure-Beyond-Pressure, elsewhere it's independent of pressure, can't remember for Seaboard. On top of that, it's originally specified as a bipolar controller, but the specs also allow for unipolar interpretation (as we do).

We are a bit concerned that while MPE is a somewhat consistent standard, each controller requires presets to be set up differently, simply because playing them require very different action.

So there's no way to generally set up Timbre control (or Pressure, really), as what makes sense on one controller doesn't necessarily make as much sense on another.

At the same time, MPE is also still a bit niche. We want to support MPE as good as we can, but it must not get in the way of the other users - which still is a majority of users. Therefore, we won't do "MPE only" features. We will always map Timbre on existing features, and CTRL A is the optimal way to do it. Timbre is MIDI CC #74, and we made CTRL A customisable for this very reason.

This way, people who do not have an MPE controller can still use the same modulation, and vice versa.