Tracktion Horizen Thread (new expansion released)

[e-musician]

Tracktion Download Manager keeps telling me that the current version of Horizen is 2.6.1. If I click on Reinstall, the version still is 2.6. When I download the individual installer from my account and install Horizen, it will install version 2.6.

Q: Why is that? Is there a 2.6.1 at all, and if so, where can I find it? Or is this just something that is going wrong inside of TDM?

[e-musician]

Tracktion and The Synthfactory are pleased to announce our latest expansion pack...Empire of Bass.

Ok, so ...

1) How many presets does this Expansion consist of? Inside the Horizen Folder, there are 62 EB presets. The browser (of which I am not really a fan of, see my post above) only lists 59.

These three presets are missing: EB_AllTheAs - EB_BigAngry - EB_SlapUp.

Possible reason: These three presets are not listed in the EmpireOfBass JSON files.


2) There is no picture for the EB EXP (and also not for the UG EXP in the AVAILABLE tab):
...

HoriZen 1.png

...

HoriZen 2.png

...
On the other hand, they do exist:
...

HoriZen 3.png

...
This folder, however, is empty: TheSynthFactory>>Horizen>>Expansions>>EmpireOfBass>>Images


3) Why are the EB presets placed inside this folder:

TheSynthFactory>>Horizen>>User Presets

and not inside this folder:

TheSynthFactory>>Horizen>>Expansions>>EmpireOfBass>>User Presets (which is empty).

Seems completely illogical to me.

Also, why are the Factory presets in a folder called FACTORY, which itself is inside the USER PRESETS folder?

I mean, at the moment, it looks like this:

TheSynthFactory>>Horizen>>Expansions

TheSynthFactory>>Horizen>>User Presets

So, why isn't there also TheSynthFactory>>Horizen>>Factory Presets?

Not a clear and logical structure (to me, but I am not a dev).

[Lind0n]

Perhaps take these issues up with support at Tracktion/The Synth factory?

[Lind0n]

Tracktion Download Manager keeps telling me that the current version of Horizen is 2.6.1. If I click on Reinstall, the version still is 2.6. When I download the individual installer from my account and install Horizen, it will install version 2.6.

Q: Why is that? Is there a 2.6.1 at all, and if so, where can I find it? Or is this just something that is going wrong inside of TDM?

Well that one looks like a TDM issue...as I haven't written a 2.6.1 plugin.

[Lind0n]

What the hell ...Im here lets deal with this now and save you the bother of going back thru support to only get to me eventually anyway.....

{snip}

1) How many presets does this Expansion consist of? Inside the Horizen Folder, there are 62 EB presets. The browser (of which I am not really a fan of, see my post above) only lists 59.

-- sorry you are not a fan of the browser - but I'm sorry to say its not changing any time soon, as it is generally quite popular

These three presets are missing: EB_AllTheAs - EB_BigAngry - EB_SlapUp.
Possible reason: These three presets are not listed in the EmpireOfBass JSON files.

-- yes this is possibly the case I will check the JSON file and bring it up with Andy... thank you.

2) There is no picture for the EB EXP (and also not for the UG EXP in the AVAILABLE tab):
...

HoriZen 1.png
...

HoriZen 2.png
...
On the other hand, they do exist:
...
HoriZen 3.png
...

Well this is working fine for everyone else so far - possibly an issue on your machine? can you restart and see if they show up? if not then I'm afraid its back thru support on this one...sorry I couldn't be more help

This folder, however, is empty: TheSynthFactory>>Horizen>>Expansions>>EmpireOfBass>>Images

-- and that is correct - we decided against using these sub folders - even though the C++ library we use adds them anyway...see below for why they are still here.

3) Why are the EB presets placed inside this folder:

TheSynthFactory>>Horizen>>User Presets

and not inside this folder:

TheSynthFactory>>Horizen>>Expansions>>EmpireOfBass>>User Presets (which is empty).

Seems completely illogical to me.

Also, why are the Factory presets in a folder called FACTORY, which itself is inside the USER PRESETS folder?

I mean, at the moment, it looks like this:

TheSynthFactory>>Horizen>>Expansions

TheSynthFactory>>Horizen>>User Presets

So, why isn't there also TheSynthFactory>>Horizen>>Factory Presets?

Not a clear and logical structure (to me, but I am not a dev).

As I say a number of folder get added by default by the C++ library - and we (well me really) decided:

1. against using this hierarchical structure - its way easier to code using a consistent single location for samples, presets etc. and less prone to errors
2. against removing this "default directoy creation" code from the library - as thats even more likely to produce edge case errors and crashes...

The other deciding factor was this "directory structure misdirection" is entirely *outside* the plugin - theres no reason to go into any of these directories for an end user. Sure its your computer you can go wherever you want - but as a user of the plugin there's no clear *need* to do that. In all user circumstances I can think of this stuff should be completely ignored by the user.

[e-musician]

What the hell ...Im here lets deal with this now and save you the bother of going back thru support to only get to me eventually anyway.....

Thank you for taking the time to help, to clarify and to explain.
Much appreciated!

[Lind0n]

i sent a mail about a month ago, no reply from Horizen guys

wondering if granular synths is on the featurelist for it?

Sorry I missed this...

So yes, granular processing is on the list - it will apply to sampler and loop voices (maybe not both at first), but not to synth voices. It's currently pencilled in for Version 3.0, which isn't a version currently on this years road map - so it wont happen soon, and as a major version update 2.x ->3.x will likely include some upgrade fee. There will however be a truck load more stuff in there as well - including possibly another synthesis method.

[aMUSEd]

Apart from Biotek being able to do granular already how is this different?

[Lind0n]

Apart from Biotek being able to do granular already how is this different?

I didnt write Biotek and I dont use it so I cant say for certain - but a quick 5min look suggests:

- Horizen uses 10 separate sound sources - I'm not sure what BioTek does - I know it has a lot of osc per note -but I think its 4 sound sources only -and you can choose what you want in each - so 4 samplers, or 4 synths etc. Whereas Horizen has (as I say) 10 sounds sources 4 x samplers plus 4x synths and two "loop/sound players"
- Biotek doesnt seem to have Loop players - Horizen has 2 - and you can load your own sounds into them.
- theres a bunch of different fx in Horizen, and 4 send slots and 4 master slots to drop them into.

Im sure there's lots more differences.

[avid_d]

Biotek offers the potential to be enormous - 4 oscillators but the ability to build layers. That said, I don't use it because I hate the UI and find it a nightmare to programme. Also, seeking to charge a substantial upgrade fee for what was, in many respects, just a UI improvement resulted in me putting it on my "VSTs not to use again" list.

I found the UI of Horizen to be far easier to programme and I liked the sounds I could get out of it. However, it also went onto my "not to use again" list when they released a major update without warning users that a user's own presets would not be carried over in the update process. I had about 100 of my own presets and was never able to restore them properly.

[Lind0n]

Biotek offers the potential to be enormous - 4 oscillators but the ability to build layers. That said, I don't use it because I hate the UI and find it a nightmare to programme. Also, seeking to charge a substantial upgrade fee for what was, in many respects, just a UI improvement resulted in me putting it on my "VSTs not to use again" list.

I found the UI of Horizen to be far easier to programme and I liked the sounds I could get out of it. However, it also went onto my "not to use again" list when they released a major update without warning users that a user's own presets would not be carried over in the update process. I had about 100 of my own presets and was never able to restore them properly.

Actually we did provide a path to reusing your existing presets - not trivial I will admit but it's further back in this thread...

[avid_d]

Actually we did provide a path to reusing your existing presets - not trivial I will admit but it's further back in this thread...

Lindon, I know because I was the one who originally corresponded with you about this. Sadly, for me the "fix" did not correctly map all of the loop and modulation points in my preset (where I had used my own samples for loops was a particular problem). Nor did the update warn that user presets were not automatically carried over in the update.

It is water under the bridge now but soured me on relying upon using Horizen.

[kraster]

Apart from Biotek being able to do granular already how is this different?

Horizen is more sensibly laid out.

Biotek has a nightmare of a UI.

It doesn't matter how many bells and whistles a synth has if it's a completely PITA to use.

Horizen is much much more accessible to use.

[Lind0n]

Actually we did provide a path to reusing your existing presets - not trivial I will admit but it's further back in this thread...

Lindon, I know because I was the one who originally corresponded with you about this. Sadly, for me the "fix" did not correctly map all of the loop and modulation points in my preset (where I had used my own samples for loops was a particular problem). Nor did the update warn that user presets were not automatically carried over in the update.

It is water under the bridge now but soured me on relying upon using Horizen.

Sorry to hear that - we tested a bunch of 2.5 presets in 2.6 and never came across that problem. Looking back at to the post above about converting 2.5 -> 2.6 presets I see its " the long way round" and we subsequently worked out a quicker way to do this, so if anyone is out there with 2.5 presets here's what to do:

1. copy all your uniquely named presets to the ../The Synth Factory/Horizen/User Presets folder.
2. start Horizen and move thru the presets using the forward and backward arrows only(not using the preset browser)
3. When you come to one of your presets open the preset browser and press "New"
4. Your preset will now have the "user" tag, you can add as many others as you like, then press SAVE..

[e-musician]

2) There is no picture for the EB EXP (and also not for the UG EXP in the AVAILABLE tab):

On the other hand, they do exist [in the Images folder]: ...

Regarding this, I now did the following (WIN 10):

1) Completely uninstalled Horizen and all the related content.

2) Reinstalled Horizen 2.6.0.

At this point, the INSTALLED EXP tab shows FACTORY (with the image), which makes complete sense. The AVAILABLE EXP tab shows 84, DH and TO (with the images) - so only those that were available when 2.6.0 was released. Meanwhile, though, two more expansions (EB, UG) have become available for purchase (so I expected them to be shown here as well).
The Images folder, at this point, contains the four images for FACTORY, 84, DH, and TO - not for EB or UG.

3) Installed EB EXP.

It is only now that the two new images for EB and UG show up in the Images folder. They do not show up in the AVAILABLE EXP tab; here you only see those two grey boxes (containing "XXX") that I posted above.


I am only posting this so that maybe you, LindOn, and the team might reproduce this issue or might get a clue why this is happening or what might be going wrong here. Maybe other users experience the same on Windows. One weird thing, for sure, is that expansions that are actually available are not shown as such and users might not be aware of them (which is a pity because they contain great sounds to enhance Horizen's capacities).