Let‘s speculate about 6.0

[] Peter:H []

Blender is an artist tool which means most of the community can’t code, yet it supports python scripting and that capability has proven invaluable for both users and the community.

Why? Because it allows extending the features of the application itself. Users can even share their code with others and bundle it up as a plugin. Entire workflows like retopology become so much more powerful compared to what comes out of the box.

The DAW community is so accustomed to a rigid idea of plugins that many don’t even realize what could be possible if you could extend the DAW beyond audio processing plugins like VSTs and CLAP.

Personally I’d love to be able to download new, community driven features for Bitwig and I think those arguing against it are getting too caught up in the coding part.

As only a few noticed when it was reported... Bitwig has a Language called Nitro at it's core. In the past there were some guys who hacked it and published their poc, look here. https://github.com/stylemistake/bitwig-device-hacks and here https://github.com/zezic/bitwig-device- ... /README.md
As of today you can still see some nitro stuff if you stroll through the installation folder and open a zip here and there, but the hack is afaik now no longer possible. The devices are now obfuscated. They seem to have taken deliberate steps to lock that kind of creative hacking out.
If the community does lot's of stuff the down side for bitwig as a company would be that it strips of potential for profit. If for instance a proper "API" would offer a possibility for a real good integration in the DAW like for instance - if you are familiar with old Java IDEs has - eclipse has provided, then we would not sit here and wait for effective piano roll improvements ... they would long be available through community DAW plugins ... but at the same time bitwig as a company might have ceased to exist.

[BobDog]

So is it V6 day on the 6th day of the 6th month?

Where I have I seen those three numbers together before

[] Peter:H []

So is it V6 day on the 6th day of the 6th month?

Where I have I seen those three numbers together before

Nope. They have started their summer sale. My guesstimate is therfore, that it will be published between this summer sale and the upcoming winter sale.

[stamp]

First of all, I have my own biased view. I bought Push and it wasn't long before it was in the closet collecting dust. Doesn't suit me. If I still used Live, I still wouldn't use Push.

Ableton spent a decade+ shaping Live to fit Push. That contributed to me no longer using Live. I'm less likely to use a DAW that makes design decisions to fit a controller I'm not interested to use. Ableton designs its instruments to fit Push. I'll guess that's why none of them have an MSEG for example.

I'm glad Bitwig is free to develop their DAW without having to constrain it to a company made controller. It's great that Bitwig doesn't have an anchor like Push holding it down. It's a big reason why I like Bitwig more than Live.

I do fully understand that, because my Push 2 laid in the shelf also for months nad years. But I rediscovered it, when I started to use it in a jamming context. I think Ableton + Push is a dream combination in terms of sequencing. When programming beats, you have 4 rows (whith 16th and 2 bars) you can put in a basic beat in seconds when using 4 fingers at the same time. So it's really fast, while pretty powerful and I would prefer this over all HW-sequencers in the market.

My perception isn't that Push is holding down AL, since there weren't so much features implemented, exclusive to Push. I would estimate, that extending the internal API and M4L capabilities need much more resources.

It may have started that way, but Bitwig has been going its own way ever since. Bitwig is unique and the Devs are doing their own thing, unrelated to Live and it doesn't matter if some users cling to an outdated perception.

So you wanna tell me, that my perception is outdated? I don't understand, why this "devs are doing their own thing" is so often used in BW context. It's good when devs are doing their own thing, when they meet by incident, what the market wants/needs. But if it tends to get on an authistic way by ignoring user requests on the one side and taking their subscription money for developing HW or other stuff no one requested, this is not going to pay off for them. I mean, I might be wrong, but most users open their wallets, if they see new features, which give them a practical advantage. For me personally (I am on 5.1.9), there didn't come anything new, which makes me willing to pay ATM. Let's see, what happens with 6. I bought a 12 month plan in May last year and am waiting since then, when it's worth to redeem it. So let's see what 6 brings, but if it doesn't convince me, I have no problem to wait till 7.

Making beats in Ableton + Push is heaven. The navigation and the ability to nudge hits off-grid is just dope. If bitwig would add the ability to nudge notes offgrid I would take my Push out of the closet...

[PhilipVasta]

So is it V6 day on the 6th day of the 6th month?

Where I have I seen those three numbers together before

Nope. They have started their summer sale. My guesstimate is therfore, that it will be published between this summer sale and the upcoming winter sale.

I don’t know, I could see them announcing it during the sale to take advantage of the excitement and spur sales.

[coroknight]

As only a few noticed when it was reported... Bitwig has a Language called Nitro at it's core. In the past there were some guys who hacked it and published their poc, look here. https://github.com/stylemistake/bitwig-device-hacks and here https://github.com/zezic/bitwig-device- ... /README.md
As of today you can still see some nitro stuff if you stroll through the installation folder and open a zip here and there, but the hack is afaik now no longer possible. The devices are now obfuscated. They seem to have taken deliberate steps to lock that kind of creative hacking out.
If the community does lot's of stuff the down side for bitwig as a company would be that it strips of potential for profit. If for instance a proper "API" would offer a possibility for a real good integration in the DAW like for instance - if you are familiar with old Java IDEs has - eclipse has provided, then we would not sit here and wait for effective piano roll improvements ... they would long be available through community DAW plugins ... but at the same time bitwig as a company might have ceased to exist.

I didn’t forget about nitro, it’s just not officially supported beyond built-in devices and seemingly limited to audio processing at the moment.

I don’t see the point of the attitude in your comment. Ok nitro exists, so what? It doesn’t do what I described, at least not yet.

I can also understand why they might want to lock it down. Modifying built-in device code is not supported and they probably don’t want it to become a trend to modify them. People will f**k up their installs and bother support about it.

[pdxindy]

I can also understand why they might want to lock it down. Modifying built-in device code is not supported and they probably don’t want it to become a trend to modify them. People will f**k up their installs and bother support about it.

Also, once users are depending on it and building stuff, the Devs are no longer free to change it in the background. Something being suitable for the Devs to build stuff behind the scenes doesn't mean it is fully realized enough to make public.

[coroknight]

I can also understand why they might want to lock it down. Modifying built-in device code is not supported and they probably don’t want it to become a trend to modify them. People will f**k up their installs and bother support about it.

Also, once users are depending on it and building stuff, the Devs are no longer free to change it in the background. Something being suitable for the Devs to build stuff behind the scenes doesn't mean it is fully realized enough to make public.

Exactly, that’s a good point.

[billinder33]

Came to the forum hoping for rumors or news about an upcoming release, so way late to this thread.

So many great suggestions here I can get behind most of them. But the one thing I absolutely NEED Bitwig to implement is ARA support. It's the one thing where I'm constantly forced to leave Bitwig's otherwise excellent workflow, export audio, import into Reaper, do work, export from Reaper, import back into Bitwig to continue workflow. Royal PITA!!!

[monolithx]

So you wanna tell me, that my perception is outdated? I don't understand, why this "devs are doing their own thing" is so often used in BW context.

If your perception is that Bitwig is a Live clone, then yes, your perception is outdated. There was a lot of similarity on initial release. Since then, Bitwig has gone in different directions that have nothing to do with Live. Bitwig is its own DAW.

When you invest time and money in a complex software tool, eventually with professional use in mind, "different direction" means nothing and is not engaging.

It's good when devs are doing their own thing, when they meet by incident, what the market wants/needs. But if it tends to get on an authistic way by ignoring user requests on the one side and taking their subscription money for developing HW or other stuff no one requested, this is not going to pay off for them.

Every DAW has users that are not satisfied with the direction of that DAW or are frustrated that certain features they want are "still not added". But beyond that, in online forums like this, there are plenty of posters who spend more time comparing DAW's, giving advice to companies about what they should do and complaining about what isn't there than they do making music. IMO, online forums are not an accurate representation of real life.

So what is "an accurate representation"? Official marketing bs? Online reviews paid or done by some exalted reviewer after one week of use? No, power users are in forums and this is where you can have the most objective view.
And because, most users are musicians, where most devs are engineers and marketing responsible. In the past, I was working for a company doing medical soft. Do you think we told doctors what they need or do we ask them what are their needs? "Hi doctor, don't bother me with your outdated medical needs, I'm an artist!" Seriously, stop this devs guru style.

One of those advantages is that lots of users have developed expectations/workflows of how things are done based on Live. IMO, Bitwig should not spend time trying to be more like Live because Live will always be better at being Live than another DAW can be.

Yes, this is somehow true. But you may not forget, that BW cloned AL for 80%, so the perception is, that it tries to be the better AL.

It may have started that way, but Bitwig has been going its own way ever since. Bitwig is unique and the Devs are doing their own thing, unrelated to Live and it doesn't matter if some users cling to an outdated perception.

Still after 15 years of dev, I don't see any pro using Bitwig on stage, except a pair of them on Bitwig site. Are devs hiding their real intentions by just following the hype of modular or Teenage Engineering style music for business? Don't blame paid users to debate. Outdated is not an argument, it's a slogan for selling hype.
Live is just the reference because MAX is the king of audio tools where the Grid is just a bunch of modulators. The good point is that DAWs like Cubase or S1 are filling the Live style gap now that they have a solid base.

[kultschar]

Think Richie Hawtin using Bitwig live

[monolithx]

For doing what? That's the question. Because, launching samples and cuttof/reso turn is not my reference. I'm talking about "hardcore" performance.

[kultschar]

Who uses DAWs Live in “hardcore performance” though in general? Most use hardware dont they

[] Peter:H []

[ wall of text removed ... ]

all well put, resonantes with me.
My take that I repeat since a few years (I think since the "paid extensions desaster) : Bitwig as a company may be a bunch of brilliant dsp / coding nerds. But they don't understand and care about marketing and their customers. Or let me put it in a different way: They project themselves as their customer base ... dave thinks that there's billions of daves out there that will buy bitwig because it's the dave daw. But to be honest, I don't use the grid anymore. it's a nice idea, but I gave up when I found out that I cannot split a chord into it's single notes with any combination of the bazillion of modules. why's that? In 2025? With like ~gen and RNBO available elsewhere. It's all stupid idiosyncrazy ... it's all a digital DAW pretending to be a analog synth.

I really have a love/hate relationship with bitwig. It touches my nerd genes. All that modulators stuff is really incredible. And I can clearly see the mindset/vision behind it which has lot's of value ... but for me it does not fully translate into reality. I don't freaking care about the 1001th iteration of a generative 753 modules grid patch that has a workaround for a missing chord track ... or like the "integration" with the visualization software that was worth like 14 days hype and whose name is long forgotten. In parallel there's a whole community of people living of "bitwig can do this and that if only you use ..." workaraound videos.
Anyways: For me the next release is going to be the litmus test. If it is not version 6, if it is not soon, if it still repeats the "the daw is a analog synth" idiosyncrazy story ... I'm going to look elsewhere like switchng back to cubase. And let me add this ... I have bought update plans and immediately activated them out of urge to support them ... I'm locked in until october 2026. I activated the plans to support them before I have learned that the dev capa and money is going into hardware developement.

[monolithx]

But they don't understand and care about marketing

Not sure here. Marketing is when you hide technical misses behind words and things like orange color ...

or like the "integration" with the visualization software that was worth like 14 days hype and whose name is long forgotten.

For me, visuals are part of the performance. If it's long forgotten, it's because license starts at 600$ ! (while in MAX you can integrate any visual).

I really have a love/hate relationship with bitwig. It touches my nerd genes.

They have, a very good base. If not, I will not have dived into it. But, it lacks lot of important basics and it's hard to understand if they plan to consolidate it or just to add commercially photogenic appealing features. And, it's my time and my money.

Who uses DAWs Live in “hardcore performance” though in general? Most use hardware dont they

Multichannel performances (Bitwig?), visuals music based generation, composers, art institutions, researchers...