Let‘s speculate about 6.0

[Dionysos]

They could be separate modes? I'm just making things up, I'll leave it to the devs to figure out the details.

[pdxindy]

They could be separate modes? I'm just making things up, I'll leave it to the devs to figure out the details.

Good plan

[tumface]

- Sampler will receive a substantial update, maybe with time stretching and/or a built-in slicer

How would that work with multi-samples?

Add the time stretch parameter per sample mapping instead of as a setting on the whole device?

(I don't really care about modern time stretching, personally, since I hate the sound of it. I just use repitching.)

[vroteg]

- Sampler will receive a substantial update, maybe with time stretching and/or a built-in slicer

How would that work with multi-samples?

Ah, here we go again with the classic Bitwig response: “It’s not gonna work.” Just like the nonsense about not being able to preview multiple notes—something literally every other DAW can do.
Now the excuse is “samples shouldn’t stretch and chop in sampler because it’s not possible.” Come on. Can’t make the sh up…
If that’s the attitude, maybe it’s time you, the Bitwig team, stops brushing things off and actually puts in the work. Other DAWs figured it out. So can you.

[pdxindy]

How would that work with multi-samples?

Add the time stretch parameter per sample mapping instead of as a setting on the whole device?

In Ableton, Sampler, which does multi-samples, doesn't have timestretching. It is Ableton's Simpler that has timestretching. It is the same thing with slicing which is only in Simpler.

I've sorta assumed Bitwig would need their version of Simpler to add timestretch and slicing.

[tumface]

In Ableton, Sampler, which does multi-samples, doesn't have timestretching.

I believe that's just an arbitrary technical limitation of how Live originally implemented Simpler and Sampler as separate things (with Sampler having a bunch of licensed code for its multi-sampling implementation.)

I'm not seeing why a sampler can't have timestretching. Like I said, just have stretch mode as a parameter for each zone or sample mapping. It would work without any problem. If you think that wouldn't work, feel free to let me know why it wouldn't. (I know that it works, because there are already samplers that do this.)

[coroknight]

I posted about this earlier but I think the solution is to turn the sampler into a container for audio clips with most of the same tools as regular audio clips.

It would turn the sampler into a mini-arranger with the difference being the sampler has its own internal clock so you can do normal sampler stuff like modulate playback speed and loop.

Multi-sample could work similarly, different keys and velocities could trigger different arranger lanes so to speak.

[coroknight]

Perhaps you could even allow crossfading clips in the sampler to create a bitwig version of Chop Suey. Would be great for creating kicks and percussion.

https://www.tracktion.com/products/chop-suey

[tumface]

I think that is a cool idea, but unless there is a bunch of helper stuff built on top of it as well, it would make regular sampling/sampler workflows a lot more cumbersome with all of the overhead of such an abstract design. I do think it is a very cool idea, though, and would love to see something like that. Actually, I would be willing to accept the additional complexity for regular sampling workflows just because it's such a cool idea.

(I really miss clip folders from Logic…)

[coroknight]

Whenever someone posts an idea, I like to give them the benefit of the doubt that the devs will spend time making sure the UI and workflow are pleasant to use.

I don’t see why current workflows couldn’t be similar to today. If someone has a single audio clip then just show that single clip and let users opt-in to advanced functionality with something like a + button to add multiple clips.

I think that’s how innovative ideas start. Begin with first principles and build up what feels like an ideal system, then think about how to make it work.

Adding more stuff to an existing solution can actually make it more cumbersome and bloated while fixing problems at a more fundamental level can actually lead to a cleaner and more powerful system even if it’s different from what people are used to at first.

[tumface]

I don’t see why current workflows couldn’t be similar to today. If someone has a single audio clip then just show that single clip and let users opt-in to advanced functionality with something like a + button to add multiple clips.

Yeah, that makes sense. I worried about the audio-events-in-clips thing making an extra layer of indirection, but if done properly, I think it would be OK. (Sometimes it's not done properly in Bitwig, though. Like the comping feature being special-cased only for audio sub-events, creating additional weirdness.)

[coroknight]

They’d probably need to show a simplified editor on the device and a pop-up or advanced editor pane for advanced controls. Kinda like how you can expand Compressor+.

[pdxindy]

In Ableton, Sampler, which does multi-samples, doesn't have timestretching.

I believe that's just an arbitrary technical limitation of how Live originally implemented Simpler and Sampler as separate things (with Sampler having a bunch of licensed code for its multi-sampling implementation.)

I'm not seeing why a sampler can't have timestretching. Like I said, just have stretch mode as a parameter for each zone or sample mapping. It would work without any problem. If you think that wouldn't work, feel free to let me know why it wouldn't. (I know that it works, because there are already samplers that do this.)

Your idea sounds good. I'd welcome the ability to timestretch individual samples in Sampler. It would make for some interesting layering, even with unstretched versions of the same sample.

I was kinda imagining a large multi-sample and trying to stretch all the samples en-mass. Seems like a CPU killer.

I wonder if timestretch modulation would be possible?

[pdxindy]

I posted about this earlier but I think the solution is to turn the sampler into a container for audio clips with most of the same tools as regular audio clips.

It would turn the sampler into a mini-arranger with the difference being the sampler has its own internal clock so you can do normal sampler stuff like modulate playback speed and loop.

Multi-sample could work similarly, different keys and velocities could trigger different arranger lanes so to speak.

Seems to me that would be more effective as a separate dedicated device. Interest idea however it could be implemented.

[Dionysos]

One thing that I'd love to see (but think is unlikely to happen) would be for the audio clip editor to gain multiple lanes, to make it possible for a clip to have polyphonic events, and for events to be moved around without them necessarily erasing what's underneath.