A delay feedback control with counts rather than percentages... does it exist?

[Urs]

So, technically, if you have a feedback loop - like in any classic delay effect -, there is an infinite number of echoes. So there is no way to actually count them or set a number of echoes until they stop. They do however get inaudible over time, and one could probably say "well, for me and in this case, inaudible is at that and that level" and then the delay could tell you how many audible taps you'd have on one side or the other.

It is still a subjective and situational choice, so I doubt anyone would prefer an interface that requires people to control feedback with two controls (number of repeats, threshold of perception).

Furthermore, many stereo delays offer different echo rates for left side and right side. This complicates things further. If one could set the number of echoes until things die, one side would decay much faster than the other, if the echoes happen in shorter intervals on one side than the other. One would need independent control for number of echoes per side, but that would clash with the actual control over rate of echoes.

I guess a classic delay with such control wouldn't be a viable product.

Then of course one could use a multi-tap delay, but that would limit the overall maximum delay time or overall number of taps. If overall time is large, taps would be tedious to set. If the overall time is short, the number of taps is rather limited.

In any case, if it's of any interest to anyone, and I'm a little curious myself, I'd be happy to produce a table showing the feedback value for each number of taps from 1 to 100 until the delay dies down to -60dB (RT60), provided the feedback parameter is linear. Not sure how useful this is and how many delays have linear feedback control (MFM2 has an option for it).

[vanerio]

I did one myself using MXXX with up to 15 taps (more can be added though).

Other methods:
Using any modular environment would allow you to use any delay you already have with a specific routing, like the one I did in MXXX. For example, Patcher in FL Studio or I think Bitwig and Live have something similar too. However, this last option will probably increase CPU consideraby if you use several instances (it depends on the plugin used). On the contrary, MXXX is really light.

Example of a 3-tap finite delay using Patcher (any delay plugin or modular environment would be valid). Each delay instance is 100% wet (no dry signal) and feedback is set to 0%.

finite delay.png

[VariKusBrainZ]

Or you could just draw the repeats / duplicate the wav like we used to

[Urs]

Yay, I made a little table. Assuming that a Feedback value of 0 still yields one audible tap, here's what you need to set feedback to (from 0% to 100%) to get so and so many audible taps:

Code: Select all

 Number of Delay Taps > -60 dB = Linear Feedback [%]
 
 1 = 0.00
 2 = 0.10
 3 = 3.162
 4 = 10.00
 5 = 17.78
 6 = 25.11
 7 = 31.62
 8 = 37.27
 9 = 42.16
 10 = 46.41
 11 = 50.11
 12 = 53.36
 13 = 56.23
 14 = 58.78
 15 = 61.05
 16 = 63.09
 17 = 64.93
 18 = 66.60
 19 = 68.12
 20 = 69.51
 21 = 70.79
 22 = 71.96
 23 = 73.05
 24 = 74.05
 25 = 74.98
 26 = 75.85
 27 = 76.66
 28 = 77.42
 29 = 78.13
 30 = 78.80
 31 = 79.43
 32 = 80.02
 33 = 80.58
 34 = 81.11
 35 = 81.61
 36 = 82.08
 37 = 82.54
 38 = 82.96
 39 = 83.37
 40 = 83.76
 41 = 84.13
 42 = 84.49
 43 = 84.83
 44 = 85.15
 45 = 85.47
 46 = 85.76
 47 = 86.05
 48 = 86.33
 49 = 86.59
 50 = 86.85
 51 = 87.09
 52 = 87.33
 53 = 87.56
 54 = 87.78
 55 = 87.99
 56 = 88.19
 57 = 88.39
 58 = 88.58
 59 = 88.77
 60 = 88.95
 61 = 89.12
 62 = 89.29
 63 = 89.45
 64 = 89.61
 65 = 89.76
 66 = 89.91
 67 = 90.06
 68 = 90.20
 69 = 90.34
 70 = 90.47
 71 = 90.60
 72 = 90.72
 73 = 90.85
 74 = 90.97
 75 = 91.08
 76 = 91.20
 77 = 91.31
 78 = 91.41
 79 = 91.52
 80 = 91.62
 81 = 91.72
 82 = 91.82
 83 = 91.92
 84 = 92.01
 85 = 92.10
 86 = 92.19
 87 = 92.28
 88 = 92.36
 89 = 92.45
 90 = 92.53
 91 = 92.61
 92 = 92.69
 93 = 92.76
 94 = 92.84
 95 = 92.91
 96 = 92.98
 97 = 93.05
 98 = 93.12
 99 = 93.19
 100 = 93.26

[Nug Wrangler]

d16 Tekturon

This seems like a good option.

Thank you!

You are welcome

[osiris]

Second vote for Relayer. You can specify # of repeats, how loud they are and much more.

[D2sX9ek8w3]

Re: Echoboy

If you change the delay type to rhythmic (I think its called that, it's with the ping pong/stereo/etc options) it will bring up a little sequencer box thing on the left side of the window. Again, I'm not it's what you want but worth looking into. I find it very hard to use because it's so small. But you can make interesting multi tap delays with it.

Wow, thank you, I did not know about that, I often use the Echoplex style on guitar, but did not know about this feature.

I just tried it and it is what I was asking for. I agree that the GUI makes it very difficult to use.

Thank you.

[D2sX9ek8w3]

fabfilter timeless 3
https://www.fabfilter.com/products/time ... ay-plug-in

Was this a "new" feature for Timeless 3? Did Timeless 2 have it?

I just upgrade to Q4 and Volcano 3 and left Timeless 3 for another time.

Maybe the time is now.

Thank you.

[kevinsparks]

ReaDelay lets you do that. I think you can even tweak each individual tap as well.

[muki]

Was this a "new" feature for Timeless 3? Did Timeless 2 have it?

afaik, the multitap functionality was a new feature of timess 3

[Nug Wrangler]

ReaDelay lets you do that. I think you can even tweak each individual tap as well.

You can indeed

[D2sX9ek8w3]

Hi,
Thanks everyone.

I upgraded my FabFilter Timeless license to version 3 and will give the multi taps a try.

Thank you.

[D2sX9ek8w3]

Well, I purchased the Tineless 3 license and loaded it up.

It is somewhat disappointing, as it almost seems too fancy for its own good. Maybe I will get used to it. The GUIs in the last few FabFilter updates appear to have taken a step backward in terms of user experience comfort. It seems as though they are trying too hard to differentiate one version from another, for no good reason other than to lend emphasis to the impression that the changes are significant.

In any event, the step sequencing in Timeless 3 does not seem as hands-on as it would be with UVI Relayer.

The Relayer videos sure make it look like the one to use for the particular effect I am seeking.

Anyways...

[Tj Shredder]

I made a Max patch some time ago which does that. I might turn it into a M4L device if there is interest. Each tap got its individual duration and level and pan, which allows way more complex rhythms than the usual feedback method...

[ramseysounds]

Question. Why?